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nightmare69 wrote:

PaJ wrote:

KD5NRH wrote:

PaJ wrote:Please note: I believe campus police receive the same training and are as good as other LEO's.

Apparently that was the local campus police chief's argument against it. He never would explain just what magic powers the regular PD would use to handle the exact same situation at HEB that he claimed his officers couldn't deal with in a classroom.

I could be wrong. Or this chief could be lazy. But all other on campus first responders are trained to work on campus or off (EMT, clinic providers, etc). Where does one go to the Police Academy Lite so they can only work on college campuses. His comments don't make sense to me.

Your information couldn't be further from the truth. My department sends me to more training then city or county LEOs. My buddies who work for local departments always complain that when they put in for training their dept always has the same excuses of "we don't have the man power to cover your shift and we lack funds." My college dept however sends me to whatever I want. I've been through advanced rifle and handgun training and may go to a sniper class this summer. I wanna go to a week long SWAT certification class also.

We go through the same academy and hold the same peace officers license from TCOLE as any other LEO in Texas, we are real police officers despite what you or others think.

KD5NRH wrote:

PaJ wrote:Please note: I believe campus police receive the same training and are as good as other LEO's.

Apparently that was the local campus police chief's argument against it. He never would explain just what magic powers the regular PD would use to handle the exact same situation at HEB that he claimed his officers couldn't deal with in a classroom.

Bladed wrote:The editorial board of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram questions the high cost estimates claimed by some universities: http://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/ed ... 14411.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

rotor wrote:Never having lived in a college dorm (always too poor) I wonder how these students now manage to secure their other personal items like their cash, car keys, etc.

Its a problem. We gave ours a small easy open vault.

howdy wrote:

Jason K wrote:

howdy wrote:I just heard the best reason why students should not be allowed to carry on campus. A leader of a college girls group said "if Colleges allowed Co-eds to carry guns then they would have to allow rapists to carry guns, and that would not help the co-eds"!!!

It might be the same story....but the same "group" said that allowing CC will also allow assailants to bring weapons on campus.....

....think about that for a moment.....

How can you argue with that logic. You just have to shake you head and walk off. It would do no good to reply.

TexasCajun wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

TexasCajun wrote:Through all of this discussion about securing handguns in the dorms for 21yr old chl holders, it occurs to me that we've inadvertently taken the position that the anti-gunners have. We are placing the responsibility of potential bad acts of non-carriers on the shoulders of the carrier. Granted, it's been more than a few years since I've lived in a college dorm. But I do recall there being a sort of mutual trust amongst roommates and suitemates. It was understood that each other's stuff was off limits unless we ask first. And we all made sure that our visitors didn't go snooping through ours or our roommates stuff. And this was the case even when when we had floor parties - which were quite common at LSU in the early 90s.

So my solution to this "problem" would be to require the chl that lives in the dorms provide some sort of secure storage for their own firearm(s). Should they find themselves rooming with untrustworthy mates, they be granted an express roommate change process to alleviate the possibility of a bad situation getting worse. And it doesn't put the chl in the position of having to be responsible for the behavior of other people.

I don't think "we've" done what you suggest. There are very few here that seem to think not allowing chl on campus or chl's to not store their guns in their dorm rooms in lock boxes is the right way to go.

I was speaking specifically of the suggestions about keeping firearms secured in the dorms. I think that we're universally agreed on the idea of allowing chl on campus. Some of the more recent suggestions read as if the poster is looking for a solution that absolves bad actors of their actions. Keeping firearms locked at the front desk is one example. Requiring some higher level of security standard is another. And there are some who've suggested outright that firearms should not be allowed to be kept in dorms at all.

Another thing we need to keep in mind is that the number of actual 21yr olds that live in dorms that have a chl is probably pretty small. So trying to develop hard and fast rules for such a statistically small percentage of a population is pause for thought and perhaps an interesting discussion. But not the barrier to the bill's passage that opponents would like it to be.

Middle Age Russ wrote:PaJ,

Taking your son's comment at face value as you presented it, I can see where he is coming from. I, too, am not terribly comfortable with the idea that some of the folks around me may have guns (some of them lack maturity, respnsibility, sanity, good judgement, or other - and perhaps multiple -- attributes that cause my discomfort). That said, the folks who have CHLs generally don't cause me to feel this way. Persons with CHL have passed a background check, they have been informed of the laws surrounding carrying a concealed firearm in the state of Texas and they have demonstrated a modicum of proficiency in running their gun to their instructor. Further, statistics cited by Charles and others here show that license holders are far less apt to commit crimes of any kind than the general populace. The question is not whether one is comfortable with all other students being armed, but whether one is comfortable with a given subset of them being armed.

Russ

v7a wrote:PaJ, are you saying that there's a threshold at which the goal of reducing suicide in an at-risk demographic becomes more important than protecting the individual's right to armed self-defense? If so, that's not any different than what many anti-gun people believe. They just have a different threshold and think that keeping a handgun in your own home is an unacceptable suicide risk (the "guns should be kept in a locker at the range" crowd).

Many students commit suicide after bullying. Should we restrict the 1st Amendment rights of students to reduce those suicides?

nightmare69 wrote:

PaJ wrote:I had lunch with my son yesterday who is a 19 year old freshman at U of H and lives on campus. We've talked about various issues before around carrying, but we talked very specifically about this issue yesterday. His take was interesting I thought.

1. He is against having guns in the dorms because of potential access by someone not qualified to handle a firearm. He said the stress of college has been rough on him and he's handled it better than most (he is a certified EMT so has more training in stressful situations than most 19 year olds). His concern isn't necessarily mass shootings but also includes suicides. he also realizes that if someone wants to die badly enough they will find a way, but a gun may make action on a bad decision more likely.

2. He is upset that the security guards and even many of the campus police are unarmed. They are essentially useless for a bad situation. In the robbery that happened earlier this week (gun point outside the dorm), a security guard saw the entire thing. From a distance he didn't realize what he was seeing. But even if he did, would he have been able to do anything against an armed robber? He also said that the girls that were robbed made several bad decisions that made them targets. It wasn't entirely a BGWAG situation.

3. He also thinks that CHL's who come onto campus should be able to carry (students, teachers, employees, parents, guests, etc). They can carry everywhere else, and currently are, without the 'wild west' scenario. So why not let them carry on campus.

In his mind, keep them out of student housing and it's fine. He thinks all security and police need to be trained and carry.

My son has always been a "good kid". He's very level headed and dealt with some severe issues at home at a young age, which has made him who he is today. Even though he has a lot to learn, I can say I truly value his opinion on many issues. If he says, "in the dorms would be a bad idea", he knows far better than I. But he also says, "We need protection everywhere else. CHLs should be allowed to carry."

After hearing his view point, I don't believe it's due to "liberal" influences, but from what he lives everyday. It's making me rethink my opinion on carry in dorms. If my son, who loves shooting and wants a CHL someday, says it would be unsafe, then I"m inclined to think that dorms may need to be set aside from campus carry.

So what is the alternative to storing the firearm in their dorm room? Keep it in their vehicle as it is now? Also, what campus in Texas has unarmed police officers? Our guards of course are unarmed but my fellow officers and I carry handguns and have patrol rifles.

ScooterSissy wrote:I guess I misunderstood something. Since allowing students with a CHL to carry on-campus will mean that campuses will need to buy gun storage devices, I need to find out the form I'm supposed to fill out to get re-imbursed for the gun storage equipment I bought for my home.

jmra wrote:Seems like someone should be able to run the numbers on the ages of students living on campus.

TXBO wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:As an university LEO, the only change I could see is students with CHLs who live on campus either in dorms or apartments being required to buy some sort of lock box to store their firearm when not carrying on their person. Sure policy will change for those students but I think people are freaking out over nothing.

I would bet that the number of 21 year olds still living on campus is not very big.