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apvonkanel,
You say you want to have a legislative bill/law, to allow school employees with LTC to carry in the schools, bypassing the local ISD school board. That will probably not happen, but as of now, school boards can allow school employees with LTC, to carry in schools. You must also realize that any removal of restrictions for LTC in schools will have a huge push back from legislators, as well as the people who send their kids to school, in that district.Having a State mandate to usurp the authority of the school boards, is overreach, in my opinion. It is similar to the idea that all school students must pass State mandated tests. These have done nothing for the educational environment, but cause teachers to "teach the test" rather than focus on individual student's needs.

Secondly, you say that having school employees with LTC be the only ones allowed to carry on school campuses be sufficient for security, does not take into account, that very few school employees would actually do so. The average for any demographic, of those qualified for LTC, is approximately 4%. How many people in your school would that be? And that is assuming that other teachers, and employees would even consider doing so.

No one here is saying school employees with LTC should not carry, and "only" allowing them to be to carry, may be a legislative first step, but you have to realize that the main objection forum members here have is that it would set a precedence for exclusion of all LTC holders, that could extend to other establishments, or professions, and that is the antithesis of what we are trying to accomplish. I understand that as a school employee, you have dealt with members of the general public, that you wouldn't trust to be in your school full time. But the same could be said about anywhere, you were employed. There are people that I wouldn't want to be in my business, but for me to say that only myself, or other employees there should be allowed to exercise our rights as an LTC holders, would not be the right approach.

Thirdly, since school districts, are a government entity, making them prohibited, to tax paying LTC holders, is equivalent to any government entity doing so, and that is what we are trying to abolish with our support for bills presently in the Legislature. JMHO

apvonkanel wrote:

Abraham wrote:apvonkanel,

Tell me if I have this right: You would like to see LTCers/school employees able to carry inside school, but you have many, many reservations about it?

Do I understand you correctly?

Or...?

Thanks!

I would like school employed LTCers to be able to carry, but have reservations about about non-employees carrying. Although many people seem to be missing the point, it has nothing to do with whether or not non-employees will be safe, but everything to do with the fact that most non-employees don't know how to handle themselves in a school without effectively breaking the educational environment.

If anyone, school employee, or non-school employee, has to use a gun to stop an attack, I fully believe the "educational environment" would be the least of anyone's concerns. I think that you have a bias toward the general public, based on a few incidences, and by saying that "most" non-school employees don't know how to handle themselves is painting with a very large brush. Picking only school employees, to be allowed to carry in schools, is tantamount to only allowing LEO to carry, in prohibited places. That is where we are now, with all of these things, and while school employees, may be trained to deal with the day to day activities, in a school, that doesn't mean that any other LTC holder should be excluded. It would be the same if someone put a sign on a restaurant saying all LTC holders who are "not" school employees may enter with their handguns, because school employees don't understand the intricacies of how this business operates. Public schools are just that "public" these people who you say are going to "break the educational environment" pay for that educational environment. JMHO

ninjabread wrote:

apvonkanel wrote:I say only school employees because of the fact that many adults don't know how to act around kids, and I know for a fact this is problematic already. Let me paint a picture for you, only citing examples of known LTC holders at my campus. I know this because my position puts me all over the campus, interacting with most of the kids and parents that come up here.
A) A mom forgets to disarm before walking in the building. I stop her at the office (she's lucky it was me and I was just looking out for her), and quietly tell her "You're printing at your 4 o'clock". She loudly yells some profanity and runs out to her car. There are two students in the office, and while they didn't hear what I said, they certainly heard what she said.
B) A dad comes in reeking of marijuana, asking to pick up his kids early. I step away and call the officer from down the road. No way I'm letting the kids get in the car of someone obviously under the influence (I'm not a marijuana smoker myself, hold to a fairly libertarian view of it, but refuse to condone putting children at risk of an inebriated driver). Long story short, after the rest the cops informs me the guy had his LTC on him, pistol in the car.
C) A granddad comes in, pulling his motorcycle up to the doorway (literally the walkway, 5 feet from the door), get's his grandkid. No big deal so far, just a little annoying because it's in the way of kids going to recess. After he picks up his grandson, he re-arms and sits there and for about 2 minutes revving the engine for fun (my assumption is to impress the grandson, from observing the expressions on both).

What I'm saying here is that just because someone is legally able to carry a pistol doesn't mean I'm ready to jump on board with letting them carry one on my campus. Being legal doesn't mean decent and kid-friendly.

Those are interesting anecdotes but pick a newspaper. Some school employees sexually assault students and you want to give them guns!?

Do you see how that works?

Not to try to pile on, but, out of the three stories you listed, only one actually concerned the safety of a child, and that was an inebriated parent, and whether or not, he was a LTC holder was irrelevant. If a non LTC had come to the school in an impaired condition, I would expect you to respond the same way.
A harried mother, rushing to return a child's homework,/permission slip/ doctor's note/lunch etc. And forgetting to disarm, is not representative of someone who is totally irresponsible, even though she used a profanity after being notified. I have, myself, accidentally carried into my son's school when a scheduling conflict, with my wife, caused me to have to leave work early and pick up my son for a dental appointment, I didn't realize it until I had already signed him out and he was on his way to the office. Had someone pointed it out to me, I may have said a few bad words myself, but nothing that any child who watches prime time sitcoms hasn't heard.
The grandfather who picked up his grandson, while revving his motorcycle by the door, was probably, inconsiderate, but, as a grandfather, I know that if my grandchild said "make it loud pop-pop" I would have done same thing. The fact that he had disarmed before entering the school, and re-armed after leaving, shows that if nothing else he was law abiding.
No I wouldn't want all parents to drive school buses, but neither would I want all school employees to do so. Driving a school bus requires training as well as a special type of attitude.

I know that working in a school, may give you the sense that, people working there are somehow more responsible than the general public, but the general public includes, doctors, nurses, LEO, EMTs, firefighters, business managers, lawyers, truck drivers, and a whole multitude of people who perform jobs that teachers, or any school employees, would not be trusted to perform.
JMHO

There are also a plethora of examples of teachers and other "vetted" school employees who demonstrated very poor judgment, to be kind, and outright criminal behavior to name it properly. Again, if the state, due to current constraints, give their blessing to legal citizens, carrying firearms in public, the idea that they will suddenly become less law abiding at a a school, where their own children attend, is, in my opinion, ludicrous.
Every parent will not be able to obtain their LTC, but neither would every school employee. Your arguments sound like they come directly from the MDA playbook. I have no problem with teachers, or any other school employee, being able to carry. I understand that they are the first line of defense for our most precious possession, in the event of an attack. But the idea, that a parent is somehow less likeley, or responsible enough, to put themselves between children and evil, doesn't pass the smell test. JMHO

While I have no doubt that all LTC holders are not 100% responsible 100% of the time, I seriously doubt you can claim the same for teachers or any other school employees.
The attitude of excluding, other LTC holders based on limited scenarios, is what the left wing try to do. Along with all of the ND, the propensity for having shootouts, at high noon, etc.
That is also the attitude they put forth when they say only LEO, are responsible enough to carry 24/7 and bypass security checkpoints at sporting events, courtrooms, and any other areas prohibited for LTC holders.
I understand that as a school employee, you belive that everyone who works in a school, constantly has the students best interest at heart, but take a look around you and ask yourself if you would feel comfortable with every employee there carrying a gun? It reeks of for me but not thee.JMHO

apvonkanel wrote:

Jusme wrote:I am not aware of such a bill, but I agree that if the school board, allows for teachers to carry. It should be no one else's business, as long as all legal criteria are met. The problem with having so many people "in the loop" regarding John/Jane Q. Instructor's carry status, is that there is no way to ensure privacy. I don't think that information is any more pertinent, than what color undergarments they are wearing. JMHO.

I'm hoping for a bill that would supersede the school board altogether. If an employee of the school district (not a contractor, but an actual employee in the district's payroll) has passed the ISD, TEA, and DPS checks to work there and carry a gun, it would allow that individual to carry concealed.

You would never get such a bill passed, trying to bypass the school districts. It would have to include language to allow districts to "opt out" Or it wouldn't get the support in the Legislature it needs. But why limit it to teachers/school employees? I think that anyone with an LTC should be able to carry in the schools. That may have to be a first step, but schools are going to be the last bastion of resistance LTC holders will have to overcome, in the removal of prohibited places. I don't think there are enough legislators ready to take on that challenge yet. JMHO

I am not aware of such a bill, but I agree that if the school board, allows for teachers to carry. It should be no one else's business, as long as all legal criteria are met. The problem with having so many people "in the loop" regarding John/Jane Q. Instructor's carry status, is that there is no way to ensure privacy. I don't think that information is any more pertinent, than what color undergarments they are wearing. JMHO.