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I should add before anyone replies, that I apologize for the "idiocy" comments. I shouldn't resort to name calling and I feel bad for doing so.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

NiMexicatl wrote:
The comments in this thread...

Being of indigenous heritages (both what most of you would consider Native America as well as Mexican which in reality is more similar than most of you will care to understand) tattoos and piercings have for thousands of years been very significant traditions. Traditions that are not foreign to the place where you all live mind you. This blanket judgmentalism is idiotic and insulting. But it's no different than the general disregard I encounter almost daily from the unappreciative narrowminded. It's sad. It's enraging. But i doubt many of you will care. It has no place among those who claim to be good, decent people who are misunderstood and targeted by liberals. Just another tally in the "maybe I should just leave this forum" column.

You'll note that I deliberately said I do NOT judge. I also said that, since others do, and since that may affect your employment, which can affect your income, and financial security, etc., are you willing to suffer the consequences in order to keep the tats and piercings? If you're willing, then I salute you for having the consistency to be true to your standards. If you're not willing to suffer those consequences and are willing to undo whatever can be undone, then I also salute you for being willing to set aside some things that are important to you, in order to have other things which are important to you. Either way, I salute you. Where I won't salute you is if you are both unwilling to accept the consequences, AND unwilling to take the steps to rectify the situation. Nobody likes a complainer who won't take action to improve his situation.

This is a fair argument and as I stated in the post I just wrote I wasn't referring to moderate statements such as yours.

I appreciate your sense of reason. That being said, yes I AM willing to accept thise consequences and I have accepted them. I have turned down well paying jobs after having lengthy, civilized, and mutually informative discussion regarding my beliefs. I have also had people thank me for the insight and hired me. I eventually decided to work for myself and I own a couple small businesses in the graphic design, video production, and web design field and business to business distribution, wholesale, manufacturing and imports fields.

I don't take the world as it's given to me. I work hard to not have to compromise the things I find important such as my family, my and my familys well being, my cultural and religious beliefs (as they pertain to me and mine), and obviously my right to protect those things from harm. I also work hard to respect the same of others.

That is why I tend to find others unwillingness to live on this planet with the understanding that it doesn't relovle around them frustrating.

Dadtodabone wrote:

NiMexicatl wrote:
The comments in this thread...

Being of indigenous heritages (both what most of you would consider Native America as well as Mexican which in reality is more similar than most of you will care to understand) tattoos and piercings have for thousands of years been very significant traditions. Traditions that are not foreign to the place where you all live mind you. This blanket judgmentalism is idiotic and insulting. But it's no different than the general disregard I encounter almost daily from the unappreciative narrowminded. It's sad. It's enraging. But i doubt many of you will care. It has no place among those who claim to be good, decent people who are misunderstood and targeted by liberals. Just another tally in the "maybe I should just leave this forum" column.

Get a grip. Indigenous does not equate noble or honorable. The "Bon Sauvage" is the product of "European" thought and never existed. Mexican heritage, if you are referring to the mixed race peoples, just means your umpty-ump great grand pa was murdering, raping, ne're do well from Spain.
Or are you claiming Nobility? Are you descended from the less than 1/10th of 1% of Mesoamerican people able to make that claim?
Or is the nobility from your Mexican heritage side? Do you claim Caique Ladino/Letrado descent? The evil white guys kept good records, both church and state, of noble marriages between Spanish and Indig nobilities. Do you have a state certified genealogy or family history?
Or are you descended from "Warriors"? Once again nearly impossible. It's the teeth to tail ratio. Modern industrial nations have an 8 or 9 to 1 ratio. We can't all be super secret squirrel delta rangers, someone has to change the oil and clean latrines. That ratio is only supported by modern farming and industry. Rome's legions during the late republican and imperial era's required 150-200 slaves on latifundia to support each standing legionnaire. The Toltec, Aztec, Mayan cultures never achieved even that level off efficiency.
In other words, you are just another mixed race human being, just like me. No special by understanding or insight into ancient cultures or you would know:

99.999 % of Mesoamericans lived a short, brutal and on occasion horrific life.

The majority of body modification of elites was ritual scarification, piercing, and the binding of skulls and jaws in infants. Tattooing was minor and adjunct to scarification.

We live in the State of Texas, The United States of America. Not some mythland created to provide self-esteem to those who haven't achieved anything in life other than turning good food into waste.

P.S. And your soliloquy reminds me more than a little of the character "Sin LaSalle"(portrayed by Cedric the Entertainer in the film "Be Cool")as he delivered his rant. And he was meant to be a caricature.

I fail to see the coherence or even relevance to a lot of the statements made in your post. But I'll touch on a few points to clarify some things and maybe you can just go on your own little way since you've fulfilled your need to throw around misinformation and belittle other's heritage in an effort to feel better about yourself

No where in my posted was I trying to paint any image of nobility. I have my own understanding of my heritage and you have yours. I concede to many truths about life in precolumbian americas, but I will not sit and listen to someone needlessly insult me for the purpose of self satisfacttion. But I guess to you there is no nobility to any of the Native peoples.

I am Cherokee, Kikapu, and Mexica (not Aztec, the word Aztec refrers to the unspecified people of the Uto-Aztecan sub group who travelled south to settle near what is now known as Mexico city).

My grandmother lived on a Cherokee reservation in Arizona with her husband before moving to Chicago and I can verify through many means and research the majority of my ethnicity. I have a little German and Italian on my mothers side that is a little hazy, but that accounts for very little with regards to percentage. But I'm not going to write three pages about all of that. I think I know a little bit more about who I am than you do.

So now that I've given some justification to my race (not that it should be necessary) let me make some other points. With regards to my Mexican heritage, even the most conservative estimates put the population of non hispanic, purely indigenous Mexican bloodline at numbers that far exceed those of the northern flavors most commonly recognized as Natives in the US. I don't find that something to scoff at and brush off as Mexicans being nothing more than a "hybrid" race.

Tattooing was a common practice in many places, but yes more common place were things like body piercing. Especially when speaking about meso-american cultures. And despite your contention that these rituals were held only for nobility you're wrong. You get this misconception from the fact that the types, styles, and specific ornamentation we're often class based.

There's more I could say outlining cultural specifics, genetics, the initially failed Spanish invasions, level of civilization,etc. but I think it would be pointless to try to open your eyes to the idiocy of your statements. Especially since you think I haven't achieved anything in life. (A statement that I feel was meant to be read as a generalization of your views of people of my ethnic persuasion)

My ONLY point was that there are customs and traditions that are NOT foreign to this country such as tattoos and piercings that I find irritating for people to treat as such with blanket assumptions and general disregard for anyone they view as different. You are a prime example of why that is so.

I was not insulting anyones race or heritage. I was not making some statement about the "white man" and his wrong doings. I was not arguing any kind of anything other than what I said.

Simply urging some consideration and voicing frustrations with some of the ignorant comments made. If any of you said something that was obviously outline as a non-prejudicial opinion then I was NOT reffering to you. I thought that was obvious wnough to go un mentioned previously.

The comments in this thread...

Being of indigenous heritages (both what most of you would consider Native America as well as Mexican which in reality is more similar than most of you will care to understand) tattoos and piercings have for thousands of years been very significant traditions. Traditions that are not foreign to the place where you all live mind you. This blanket judgmentalism is idiotic and insulting. But it's no different than the general disregard I encounter almost daily from the unappreciative narrowminded. It's sad. It's enraging. But i doubt many of you will care. It has no place among those who claim to be good, decent people who are misunderstood and targeted by liberals. Just another tally in the "maybe I should just leave this forum" column.