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flowrie wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:20 pm One other item. Before reloading say 20 rounds, I measure each bullet. Using the longest bullet I seat and then measure the base to ogive then seat all the other bullets at this setting. Trying to achieve a consistent jump to the lands. Seems to help some based on today’s range results.
Pics are with a red dot sight at 50 yds, 68gr Hornandy HPBT match ( 3 distinct holes) and the other is 62gr Sierra SBT ( 3 bullets but looks like two holes).

You mentioned using a mic. If it's accurate to 4 decimal places, check the dia. of the Hornady and the Sierra bullets. Sounds like the Sierra's are slightly smaller in dia. Some of your problems seemed tied to the small base sizing die, so whoever recommended you get one, be sure and thank them for the problems you've had. If you've fired factory ammo in your rifle, and had no problems the small base sizing die was a bit of over-kill.
Check with one of your shooting buddies who handloads .223/5.56mm and uses a standard F/L sizing die and borrow it. See if things don't go much easier.
There are some basic rules for handloading auto-rifle cartridges. Cases must be F/L resized, your bullets need a cannelure, and you need to crimp the case-mouth into the cannelure.
With the increased resistance you're getting in seating bullets due to the cases being resized in a small base sizer, you might think that the increased case-neck tension is enough. It will not, however, prevent set-back as effectively as crimping into the cannelure. And there is still some room for adjusting OACL.
Maybe you're more interested in punching paper than using your AR 15 for tactical purposes. It's your rifle and it's up to you how it's used. Lots of talk about bullets tumbling out to 300 yards and a 77 gr. Sierra MatchKing w/cannelure will do that if it leaves the muzzle at 2700 FPS. It is just as important to know how your bullet performs at much shorter ranges like the 50 yards you fired your targets at. It's very easy to test by lining up 5 or 6 - 1 gallon water filled jugs at 50 yards. If the bullet comes apart, then obviously you want one that doesn't, if there is a tactical purpose for using a particular bullet.

Beiruty wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:23 pm

SRO1911 wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 9:37 pm Your seating die does not match the ogive of the bullet you are seating. To confirm this take a very small, half pea-sized, ball of tinfoil and place it in your seating die. After you seay the first bullet, the foil will conform to the shape of the bullet you are currently using. This will change with different bullet types.

This is for the cause of the ring.
You can polish the inside of the seating stem.
Watch here. https://photos.app.goo.gl/NDD8SYxZ41v8ceNu7

Do people actually show up for your "handloading" classes?

flowrie wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:46 am Have been reloading for a few weeks now.
Getting some good results (better than factory 55 gr range ammo).
Trying to improve some more using some longer match bullets.

Have a question maybe someone can help with.
I measured the cartridge base to the lands, is approx. 2.010
In order to load with a magazine I need to keep the COAL at 2.260 or less.
Using a Hornandy 68 gr HPBT match, I am getting a calculated “jump” of about 0.122 to 0.123

Using a Sierra 69 gr HPBT match, the calculated “jump” to the lands is at 0.183.

Is this a normal jump distance to the lands for an AR 15?
Barrel is a 16” 1:7

Sounds like something's going wrong in the measurement process. A Wylde Chamber is longer than the .223 Rem's. If you got a measurement of 2.010" where the bullet is touching the lands of the rifling, you would need to shorten that length to 2.000" to allow .010" of "Free-Bore" which would give you .010" of bullet jump. Then your handloads will still need to be short enough to work in the mags.

Maybe try this. Size and expand a case, then lower the expander so that you can pass the neck over the expander about 3 times without doing anything else to the case. This should allow for some bullet travel within the modified "dummy." Do not prime or charge the test "dummy." Insert your bullet to make a "dummy" round, see if you can enter it gently into the chamber easing the bolt forward and give it a slight assist if need be to where the bolt is completely forward and the dummy is fully chambered. If that works, your OACL should be longer than 2.260" with a Wylde chamber. Test several times to see if that length is consistently the same. It may not work, but it does sound like something about the use of the cartridge gauge is not working right

For a good many handloaders, because of the magazine restriction, they use a standard OACL of 2.250". First and foremost, your rounds must function in the mags. And another point for others, and I use Redding .223/5.56mm dies, with a good full-length sizing die, they don't have to be small base.

With a Wylde chamber and a 1 in 7" twist, it's the magazines that will dictate OACL. Maybe look at Blick Hills latest offering, the Mk 262 Mod 1C. They are claiming 2" groups for 10 rounds at 300 yards.

That's great at 300 yards, but what if the target is only at 50 yards? On that I have done some testing and the Sierra 77 gr. HPBT Match w/canelure comes apart at that shorter range and 2700 FPS velocity. The Hornady 75 gr. BTHP Match w/cannelure holds together at 50 yards with 2750 FPS velocity. For all intents and purposes, accuracy difference out to 300 yards is negligible.

The only true source that I know of for 5.56mm NATO data is https://blog.westernpowders.com/
Other data providers plug in a heavier bullet and call their loads 5.56mm NATO even while their loads are at or below 55,000 PSI, the MAX Average Pressure of the .223 Rem. The pressure standard for 5.56mm NATO is 62,350 PSI/CIP.

The load I mentioned earlier with the Hornady 75 gr. Open-Tip match bullet of 75 grs. will give 2750 FPS from a 16" barrel at .8 grs. below the Max charge of Ramshot TAC. With an OACL for our loads at 2.248", there will be no function issues with the mag. and 25.0 grs. of TAC will get you 2750 FPS from a 16" barrel, and an identical load to the "LEO" TAP2 or their 75 gr. 5.56mm NATO Match load. They all use the same bullet, just make sure that it's the cannrlured version.

flowrie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:40 pm I think the seater plug is not ideal for the bullet I am loading. Will try different brass, reduce powder load, new seater die, and see what I get. I removed the expander and it is really tight when I wiggle it in and out of the mouth of resized brass. So, may be a sizing issue, I am using small base and not full length. I don’t really mind marks on the bullet just so it is not deformed. It’s a learning process, I’ll figure it out, do appreciate the help/suggestions!

It is most definitely a learning process, but that's a good thing. The day I wake up and think there's nothing new to learn . . . There are only good questions here.

I hope I explained the procedure in a comprehensive way. One cycle of the case to resize and then expand the neck on the way down I am calling a single cycle. When I mentioned doing that a second time, it's strictly about doing that with a dummy and passing the case neck through a second cycle. From there you can test the load for set-back, IF the bullet will seat without deforming, by pressing the nose of the bullet into a block of wood. However, without a cannelure on the bullet with the case-mouth crimped into it, you're more likely going to shorten the load with a "push" test.

Having adequate chamber length is NOT an issue here. The Wylde chamber will be good with any OACL at or near 2.260". With bullets that were designed for .223/5.56mm NATO, they will have a cannelure. I'll just post the load we use, but remember to work up from a charge at 2 grs. less. The Hornady 75 gr. BTHP w/cannelure with 25.0 grs. of TAC and over a CCI400 primer with an OACL of 2.248", I've seen 10 rounds go into .5 MOA at 100 yards. I've chrongraphed enough of them to know that Standard Deviation will be 10 FPS or less, but that's just my load. The objective being something equal to what first became known as the Mk 262 Mod 0. Development courtesy of a great Texan named Chris Kyle. But that load used a SIERRA 77 gr. open-tip match bullet w/cannelure with a velocity mandate of 2700 FPS in order to tumble at 300 yards. When I tested that load at 50 yards, however, it came all-apart. Testing the Hornady 75 gr. open-tip match bullet with 2750 FPS at the muzzle, the load is equal in accuracy while it does NOT come apart.

If that's the thing you're trying to accomplish. But I would always use a bullet with a cannelure to crimp into if it will be used in an autoloading rifle.

flowrie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:52 pm Follow the manufacturers instructions for setting up your dies. I don't know what your seating stem looks like, I use REDDING Standard FL dies without issue, I passed on the small base dies, but obviously there is too much force being placed on your bullet. If it were an expander issue, your method of seating in 1/3 steps should be revealing a problem by the second step if not after the first. So I suspect that you're not seeing this until after the 3rd and final step? Try seating a bullet for a "'dummy" round without and powder in the case.

Seeing the issue on the first 1/3 step, and also with dummy bullets, no primer no powder.
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Sorry, I overlooked you mentioning that your seeing the significant ring after your first step. One other thing that might be worth a try would be to pass the case-neck over the expander a couple of times when you make the dummy. At .222" the expander seems right, but maybe the sizing die is a bit too tight and undersizing the necks.

Personally, I only load bullets that have cannelures for autoloaders that can be crimped into. I taper crimp into mine just enough that it would catch the top part of the cannelure if set-back occurred.

flowrie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:34 pm Many years ago I reloaded 357 mag and never had any problems. Recently, I decided to get back into reloading but for rifle, specifically 223. I want a longer bullet for my 1:7 223 Wylde barrel, so I decided on a Hornady 68 gr HP Match. Purchased a set of RCBS small base dies. When I seat the bullet, there is a ring around the bullet near the tip ( see picture). My process is to decap ( no sizing), tumble clean, trim and clean the primer pocket, lube and size, chamfer, prime, drop powder, seat bullet. While seating the bullet I gently partially seat, rotate the case, partially seat, rotate, complete seating. However, the ring on the bullet appears during the first partial seating, and gets worse as I go. It is actually deforming the bullet, I can feel the indentation.

I am thinking possibly the expander is not opening the mouth enough, but the amount of force to seat does not seem to be too much. Maybe a bad seater die? Any suggestions ?

What OACL are you using and which powder and charge-weight? Your bullet looks like it's seated pretty deep, maybe too deep. If you're using a very dense spherical like TAC or AA 2520, those powders, and several others like them will not compress by very much, if at all.

Follow the manufacturers instructions for setting up your dies. I don't know what your seating stem looks like, I use REDDING Standard FL dies without issue, I passed on the small base dies, but obviously there is too much force being placed on your bullet. If it were an expander issue, your method of seating in 1/3 steps should be revealing a problem by the second step if not after the first. So I suspect that you're not seeing this until after the 3rd and final step? Try seating a bullet for a "'dummy" round without and powder in the case.

I'm sure you know that the OACL you can use is determined by your magazines with Max OACL being 2.260". I would load as long as possible while the rounds function 100%. A bullet you might want to consider in the future is the Hornady 75 gr. BTHP w/cannelure. Your barrel with a 1 in 7" twist and the Wylde chamber should handle bullets even heavier. I load for 1 in 8" twist barrels with 5.56mm NATO chambers where max is around 80 grs. for that twist rate. The cannelure on the bullet we use is properly located for crimping into it and OACL is 2.248".