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Agree - apologies if I gave the impression they were the same. They're not, not by a long shot.

A hassle? Understatement of the year friend. The basic problem is, when government makes a mistake, and I'm putting it mildly here, almost nobody is ever held accountable.

I just finished reading the entire FDLE report for the negligence shooting in Florida of a 73 year old woman taking part in a police demonstration. The dead woman was given a blue safety Glock with simunation ammo. Her killer, used his personal S&W 637. The state agency interviewed almost everybody present, (with the exception of the officer who pulled the trigger, they spoke with his attorney) including at least a half dozen officers that observed the demonstration. When you boil it all down, nobody checked the 637, or the ammo to be used in that weapon. As part of the investigation, they cataloged the ammo the officer had in his vehicle. Two boxes of CCI Blazer HBWC .38 caliber ammunition, three boxes of Winchester .38 blank firing cartridges, and one box of Fiocchi .380 blank rounds. The officer (a Lieutenant!!) who "probably" gave him the wad cutters, said she thought they were blanks. They were from her residence, her husbands personal ammo. (he's an LEO also) Did she not read what was printed on the box?

Bottom line, here is the conclusion of the report: "There is no evidence that Officer XXXX intended to use lethal ammunition while participating in the role play scenario with XXXX on August 9, 2016. Furthermore, it is apparent that Ofc. XXXX's, and others', inability to differentiate between blank firing cartridges and .38 caliber HBWC ammunition resulted in XXXX's death."

My conclusion: if it's a highest ranking official in the State Department, or an LEO that didn't "intend" to kill a civilian, the same standard applies for government employees.

What you vote for, is what you get. I'm pretty sure The Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying, isn't elected, but the politicians who appropriate the money for the board sure are. The fine is clearly unconstitutional. All of us have heard it, "You may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride". This guy is going to spend a lot more that $500 fighting this, and there will be zero consequences to the board members.

In my town the voters got a chance to vote to keep or reject them. It also happened the then current Mayor was running for re-election and running a very pro red light camera campaign. He and the cameras were soundly beaten by a 70-30 margin. If the politicians let the voters decide, it would be a bloodbath.