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by seamusTX
Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:39 am
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Lawful Order for civilians?
Replies: 25
Views: 12730

txinvestigator wrote:Texas Government Code
§ 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.
I think the officer will always "win" this one.

Some cops think non-LEOs should not have weapons. Not may, but some are prominent. They pop up every time some relaxation of firearms laws is proposed.

BTW, we are talking about Texas law, which is fine. Other states may be quite different.

- Jim
by seamusTX
Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:24 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Lawful Order for civilians?
Replies: 25
Views: 12730

txinvestigator wrote:An example; If I am smoking (I don't, but we'll pretend) in an area that is not illegal to smoke in, and a LEO orders me to put it out because he wants to talk to me, I don't have to and there is nothing he can charge me with if I don't.

Peace Officers in Texas do not have Parental Authority, and cannot make you do as they please simply because they say so. ;)
I understand that. I'll give you some examples of what I'm talking about:

I was walking past a traffic stop once, in daylight. The driver opened the car door. The cop, still in his car, used the loudspeaker to say, "Stay in the car." The citizen continued to get out, and the cop repeated the order more emphatically. The citizen got back in.

(I almost wish he had gotten out, so I could see what would happen.)

Stopping to watch some kind of incident, the police often say something like, "Please move along." Citizens who disobey that order and take photos often find themselves arrested for something. They probably are not convicted of a charge in the long run, but they are arrested.

Crossing police lines at a public event where some space has been roped off, for example, the mayor's reviewing stand. Busted.

In one of those cases in Galveston, the guy was either pepper-sprayed or tasered and charged with numerous offenses. He sued the police. All the charges and counter-charges eventually died out.

- Jim
by seamusTX
Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:40 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Lawful Order for civilians?
Replies: 25
Views: 12730

txinvestigator wrote:
seamusTX wrote:Basically, when an officer tells you to stop, you are under arrest and must do anything lawful that he tells you.
Not true at all. I do not have to comply with a peace officer if I am placed under arrest other than to not resist the arrest or try to escape.
I'm talking about orders such as "get out of the car," "keep your hands in front of you," "put your hands behind your back," etc.

Isn't the arrestee obligated to do what the officer says in those cases?

I'm not talking about orders to polish the officers shoes.:smile:
txinvestigator wrote:
seamusTX wrote:An officer can ask to speak with you in a public place without making an arrest. You are compelled to identify yourself if asked, but nothing else.
Again, not true. There is only one instance when a person must identify himself, and that is when arrested. (not counting, of course, when involved in activities requiring licensing
I'm sorry my statement was inaccurate. Most of the people reading this forum are going to encounter the police while driving and be compelled to show their driver license, and CHL if carrying.

When police stop people on foot in a public place, some suspicion already exists, as in the case of Mr. Terry. (I forget which state that occured in.)
txinvestigator wrote:There is no charge in Texas of "failing to obey a lawful order".
From what I've read in various accounts, in Texas, people who refuse to obey a peace officer end up charged with interfering with official duties or resisting arrest. Of course, to be resisting arrest, the person must have done something warranting arrest. The newspapers are usually fuzzy on the details.

The bottom line for me is that I will obey an order of a peace officer that is not unlawful or dangerous. I won't like it, but I don't want to be arrested or worse.

- Jim
by seamusTX
Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:40 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Lawful Order for civilians?
Replies: 25
Views: 12730

That's a hugely complicated topic and I don't know all the answers.

Basically, when an officer tells you to stop, you are under arrest and must do anything lawful that he tells you. That power is given by Chapter 14 of the Code of Criminal Procedure: http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/cr.toc.htm

An officer can ask to speak with you in a public place without making an arrest. You are compelled to identify yourself if asked, but nothing else. He can at that time search you for weapons. That is called a Terry stop.

Also, for a CHL holder, if asked for ID when you are carrying, you must display your driver license and CHL; and the officer can then disarm you.

One of the more interesting aspects of Texas law is that a peace officer can ask a citizen for assistance in an arrest or search, and the citizen has powers similar to a police officer's for the duration. See PC § 9.51.

- Jim

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