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cyphertext wrote:

TVGuy wrote:

cyphertext wrote:

TVGuy wrote:
I've actually heard the exact opposite when buying guns with my wife due to community property laws.

Even with community property laws, the firearm is being transferred to one person by the licensed dealer. When selling to a business entity, one person acting on behalf of that business completes the 4473 with their personal info and then provides an addendum stating that the firearm is being purchased for use by the business entity. The 4473 does not transfer the firearm to multiple parties.

Every other Friday my company transfers a sum of money to me and only me. The moment it hits my account, it is equally my wife's by law.

More to my point - If I go to a gun dealer and fill out the 4473 for a gun I'm going to take possession of, why can't my wife (I'm only speaking about such a relationship, not a friend or other relative) pay with her debit card. Technically that money in he account is equally mine.

I'm the FFL... you come into my store to buy a firearm. I don't know you from Adam. I have no way of knowing it is your wife. Could be your sister. Could be a friend from down the street... the feds don't have a process for an FFL to follow to determine the validity of your claim that it is your spouse and it is a joint account. So the way the training goes is if you fill out the paperwork, the debit card needs to come from your wallet, not your wife's purse.

It really puts the FFL in a bad position, as the customers don't understand, and it isn't equally enforced from one store to another. Academy takes a very hard line where they will stop the sale for anything that could appear to be a straw purchase. I never saw it personally, but I heard tales of ATF sting operations where they would come in and set up a scenario to see if the store allowed the transfer.

We heard about the FBI stings in the sporting goods chain I managed also. If there was any doubt whatsoever the sale was stopped immediately.

Not quite Wysiwyg101. The operative term, as I remember from when I was selling firearms, is "Are you the actual transferee/buyer..." If he is not paying for the firearm he is not the buyer. Contrary to what has been said here, I was taught that the person paying has to fill out the 4473. I'm not saying this is correct, it's just what I was taught. I've even had to have the payer fill out the form when I knew he was giving the gun to the person next to him (DPS officers). Knowing it was a gift made it completely legal. Having someone pay for a gun someone else is filling out the form for was not allowed, even if I knew it was above board. If audited by the BATF I could not legally correlate one person's payment with another's 4473 form.

IANAL, but that was my understanding. If you really want to make this completely above board, buy the gun in your name, and then when gifted have the new owner fill out a 4473. That provided full transparency and a paper trail if the FFL is audited and it shows transfer of the firearm to the new, and actual owner.