1911's and revolver now permitted in NRA Carry Guard Classes

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Charles L. Cotton
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1911's and revolver now permitted in NRA Carry Guard Classes

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:09 pm

The NRA has reversed its decision regarding 1911's and revolvers. Below is a copy of the official position on Carry Guard classes.

Chas.

NRA wrote:In response to clear feedback surrounding the NRA Carry Guard Level I course announcement, we have modified the required firearm platforms as well as our site language to clearly articulate how firearms will be used in the class.

Bottom line: our decision to not include 1911s and revolvers as primary firearms in our initial Level I course was a mistake, and we appreciate the feedback we have received from the firearms community.

In response to the clear and overwhelming demand for these firearms to be used throughout the entire course, our instructors have decided to accommodate all safe, reliable handguns with a capacity of 6 rounds or more. Firearms with less than 6 rounds of capacity will still be allowed as secondary platforms.

We welcome anyone serious about building the skills necessary to defend themselves and their families to attend our NRA Carry Guard Level I course, beginning in July.
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Re: 1911's and revolver now permitted in NRA Carry Guard Classes

Postby bblhd672 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:15 pm

"After reviewing the play, the call on the field is reversed!"

Good job NRA correcting the mistake.
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Re: 1911's and revolver now permitted in NRA Carry Guard Classes

Postby RHenriksen » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:16 pm

"Bottom line: our decision to not include 1911s and revolvers as primary firearms in our initial Level I course was a mistake"

I'm just flat gobsmacked to hear language like that from a large organization, I'm not sure what to say! :tiphat:
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Re: 1911's and revolver now permitted in NRA Carry Guard Classes

Postby Bitter Clinger » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:18 pm

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Re: 1911's and revolver now permitted in NRA Carry Guard Classes

Postby 1911 10MM » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:48 pm

KUDOS to the NRA for listening to its membership!

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Re: 1911's and revolver now permitted in NRA Carry Guard Classes

Postby Scott B. » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:54 am

Another gun blog which is sometimes right, is pointing the finger at the NRA's PR firm for the 1911/Revolver decision. Certainly, the program's roll out is highly polished as most things from NRA are, but Carry Guard is a bit odd.

NRA has (had?) a core of instructors and NRA Counselors to teach the instructors. More experienced shooters could take the NRA "Personal Protection" classes, both the inside the home and outside the home versions. Together, these courses were excellent training for gun owners and those who carry. Why wasn't this "Gold Standard for Carry Training" developed out of what already existed? I guess we were only the tin or bronze standard before.

Instead, this program bypasses NRA Counselors and Instructors and essentially kills the personal protection series.

Carry Guard is promoted as being designed by a group of experienced high speed operators. Is that the right face for a training standard for national carry? I'm sure these instructors are great, skilled guys, but in my opinion, going special warrior tactical-cool is purely a PR stunt and sends the wrong message. And, note the complete absence of a female instructor. Sure, they've got Dana Loesch promoting it, but you're telling me they couldn't find one female instructor for the training development team? Biggest growing group of gun owners and all?

Do we want to train average citizens to protect themselves or not?

Granted, NRA pretty much killed the existing NRA training program with their aborted online training scheme. With nobody taking the basic courses there weren't any students to take the advanced classes. Wonder if that decision traces back to the same leadership group and PR team?
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Re: 1911's and revolver now permitted in NRA Carry Guard Classes

Postby skeathley » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:47 am

It looks to me like the NRA is trying to compete with Gunsite, and undermining their instructor base in the process. I teach a lot of LTC students, and VERY few of them are interested in becoming Operators, but just getting the license. I don't see more than 1% of them taking 3 days off from work and spending $850.00 for this level of training. I could see a few of them spending $75.00 to $100.00 to become more proficient, but not much more.

And why would they? Texas makes the Proficiency so easy a beginner can pass it, so they think they are operators already. When the .22 is allowed, there won't be much point to even having it.

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Re: 1911's and revolver now permitted in NRA Carry Guard Classes

Postby Scott B. » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:19 am

Agree completely. The number of students for a dedicated 3 day training course will be small. Three successive weekends and you might have something.

Don't forget the 1,200 rounds students have to buy as well. That's a high round count for such a short course.

I'm signed up for the instructor's course, like a lot of other people. Maybe I'll feel differently after I've been through it. Suspect I'll just chalk it up to another training evolution. Take the good from it and continue on.
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Re: 1911's and revolver now permitted in NRA Carry Guard Classes

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:55 pm

There is a lot of speculation about the NRA Carry Guard Level I class, who will teach it, and the motivation for its creation. I have learned a lot more about it in recent days, but it's not for me to disclose details at this point. I will address a few concerns in general terms.

"Operator school"
I think I know where this theme began, but it's wrong. Although the primary trainers are special forces guys, it is not SEAL school by any means. The course will be designed for the typical LTC person, but it certainly will be more than the range portion of PPIH and PPOH, a lot more. The promotional videos I've seen are hardly "operator" school by any stretch of the imagination. They are very short videos, but they appear to show what I did in my very first class (Defensive Handgun) at Thunder Ranch. Anyone who considers that skill set/level to be "operator school" shouldn't take the class or apply to be a Carry Guard Instructor. This isn't meant to be insulting, but a focus on the intensity level of the course. I have no doubt that the course will modified over a short period of time to address any concerns. Again, I wish I could say more but it is not my place to do so.

Who will teach the Carry Guard Classes?
I don't know the full extent of the screening process, but it is my understanding that some NRA Instructors will be able become Carry Guard Instructors. As one Member has pointed out, the NRA set eligibility requirements for NRA Instructors to get certified to teach PPIH and PPOH. In view of the advanced training and physical agility requirement involved, Carry Guard instructor candidates must also be screened. The current instructor team everyone is seeing on videos are those who will train and certify NRA Instructors to teach Carry Guard classes. They are not traveling instructors who will be the only people teaching the courses. I presume/hope that there will be an effective screening process to select current NRA instructors who will be eligible to teach Carry Guard classes. My personal opinion is that the vast majority of NRA instructors do not have the training, experience and perhaps even physical stamina to teach CG courses.

Again, this is not an insult. It's a recognition that of the 100,000+ current NRA instructors, only a small percentage have advanced training in fighting with a handgun. Notice I said "fighting" as opposed to basic skills courses. Note also that every single NRA course currently in existence is titled "Basic." (“Basic” Rifle Course, "Basic" Pistol Course, "Basic" PPIH, "Basic" PPOH.) Each is titled "Basic" because target audience is people with little to no experience in the subject matter. Any current NRA instructor knows that the range portion of each of these classes is indeed BASIC! One IDPA match gives people more shooting experience and training, but that’s fine. Again, the target audience is people with little or no shooting experience.

Cost of the Carry Guard Classes
I don’t know anything about the cost of the courses. I don’t know if the NRA has a hand in it or whether it’s up to the instructor as is the case now. $850 for a three-day 1,500 rd. course is not expensive in today’s market. Some people can afford to take an $850 class and some cannot. Unless an instructor owns a range and has free assistant instructors, he/she will have significant expenses in connection with a Carry Guard course. The profit will not be $850 per student.

Small market
This may turn out to be correct, especially from a macro perspective. However, it’s not relevant to the NRA’s motivation for creating Carry Guard courses. There has long been a demand from gun owners for the NRA to create self-defense courses that are more advanced than anything currently offered by the NRA. Not only did Members want advanced courses, they wanted to be sure the classes were the same regardless where the class was offered. This was the impetus for creating Carry Guard.

By no means is Carry Guard intended to render any of the current NRA classes obsolete. Indeed, when I’m asked about PPIH and PPOH, I tell them they are great courses, primarily because of the information presented in the classroom. I candidly tell them the range drills are basic and boring, if they have any handgun shooting experience at all. Unlike the countless tactical courses I’ve taken, the NRA PPIH and PPOH cover subject matter in the classroom that was never mentioned in any of the tactical courses.

Obviously, anyone taking Basic Pistol isn’t remotely close to being a candidate for a Carry Guard Class. I’m putting together a training program that will include my own basic, intermediate and advanced classes, LTC, NRA PPIH, PPOH and Carry Guard. It will truly be a self-defense academy. (My advanced courses are shoot house courses including force-on-force training.) I also do not expect to have a huge market and many who start the program will not take all of the courses. I have no doubt that for every Carry Guard student I might have, if I’m ultimately a Carry Guard Instructor, I’ll have 50 in my Basic Handgun Skills and Intermediate Handgun Skills courses. That is no reason for the NRA to ignore Members’ requests for advanced level training. It also doesn’t negatively impact my training efforts.

Be creative and leverage the Carry Guard courses into the training you offer. Even if you never get certified for Carry Guard, you can use that as part of your program for teaching people how to survive a deadly attack. Your classes are offered as the foundation for your students ultimately taking Carry Guard courses, whether from you or another instructor.


NRA Online Training Courses
Though not on the current subject, I wanted to respond to a comment about the NRA’s blended/online training courses. The program is being changed in response to NRA instructors’ comments and concerns, not because it wasn’t popular. We had a huge volume of people taking Basic Pistol online. Once again, rank speculation is off the mark.

Chas.
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