Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

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ctsmith9962
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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby ctsmith9962 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:29 am

jayinsat wrote:Although the left will launch a full assault on gun rights and many of you have blamed movies, games etc, I believe all those reasons miss the mark. Nothing like this happened before God, and more specifically, the fear of The Lord was banned from society and our schools. Our kids are not allowed to pray, Jesus name can't be mentioned and God, we are told, is just a fairy tell. Even Christmas is forbidden. It's X-mas so we don't offend.

Without a moral fiber, humanity will rapidly devolve into its most base form. We are clearly seeing this. Our moral foundation was built upon the 10 commandments and we've shattered that. Why wouldn't we expect evil to reign?

Who's offended now?


I do not believe Jesus but I still have moral fiber.


ctsmith9962
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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby ctsmith9962 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:34 am

People need to stop putting blame on video games, guns, god, school, how you are raised, and other crap. It happened because he decided to do it! It is his fault and no one else is to blame. Why does the media try to find all kinds of reason for his action?


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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby Frankie » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:41 am

BREAKING******

They are now saying the AR was in the school next to the shooters body. They are also doing background checks into three addtional rifes. Model or type not given just that they are investagating 3 more rifes.
Sig Ultra TT, Glock 23 (G4), Glock 30s, Glock 43

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baldeagle
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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby baldeagle » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:53 am

benenglishtx wrote:
A-R wrote:Worst American school massacre of all time happened ...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
You correctly specified "school massacre". Thanks for that. The wiki page you pointed to, however, needs editing. It says that Bath, with 38 victims, was the "fourth-deadliest massacre in U.S. history, behind the Oklahoma City bombing, the Mountain Meadows massacre and 9/11." That's clearly wrong. Offhand, the Happy Land arson murder comes to mind as having more victims. In that case, 87 people died. The killer used less than a gallon of gasoline and a couple of matches.

This is germane. Why?

Note the use of language in the media. They now refer to "mass shootings" instead of "mass murders". If they referred to "mass murders", they'd have to include Happy Land, 9/11, and a bunch of other killings. Yesterday's shooting would fall way down on the list and people would then be reminded that crazy people can find ways to kill lots of people at one time WITHOUT using guns. The nicely-alliterative phrase "mass murder" that was once common and is exactly the sort of wording that a good writer or newsreader *should* use is abandoned in favor of the more cumbersome "mass shooting" solely, in my opinion, because many folks in the media will use any excuse to push focus away from the tragedy of the loss of life and toward, however subtly, pushing a gun-control agenda.

Or maybe I'm just observant.

FIxed it for ya.
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VMI77
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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby VMI77 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:02 pm

benenglishtx wrote:
A-R wrote:Worst American school massacre of all time happened ...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
You correctly specified "school massacre". Thanks for that. The wiki page you pointed to, however, needs editing. It says that Bath, with 38 victims, was the "fourth-deadliest massacre in U.S. history, behind the Oklahoma City bombing, the Mountain Meadows massacre and 9/11." That's clearly wrong. Offhand, the Happy Land arson murder comes to mind as having more victims. In that case, 87 people died. The killer used less than a gallon of gasoline and a couple of matches.

This is germane. Why?

Note the use of language in the media. They now refer to "mass shootings" instead of "mass murders". If they referred to "mass murders", they'd have to include Happy Land, 9/11, and a bunch of other killings. Yesterday's shooting would fall way down on the list and people would then be reminded that crazy people can find ways to kill lots of people at one time WITHOUT using guns. The nicely-alliterative phrase "mass murder" that was once common and is exactly the sort of wording that a good writer or newsreader *should* use is abandoned in favor of the more cumbersome "mass shooting" solely, in my opinion, because many folks in the media will use any excuse to push focus away from the tragedy of the loss of life and toward, however subtly, pushing a gun-control agenda.

Or maybe I'm just paranoid.
'

The same reason they quote "gun deaths" or "gun murders" or "shooting deaths" in other countries and never make comparisons that include deaths by beating, stabbing, and clubbing --all of which increase when guns are not available. In Rwanda they murdered up to one million people simply using machetes.

And there is no subtlety in their push --it's an out-and-out frenzy....they believe this is their ticket to ride and they're not going to miss the trip.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."

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Thomas
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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby Thomas » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:26 pm

One of my "Facebook Friends" just posted this:
Maybe the world should end Friday. I am downright sickened by the amount of political stuff people are spouting in light of yesterday's events. Get off your high horse and show some respect.

Ignoring Facebook for the next few days in hopes that abets my temper. For those who want to get a hold of me either shoot me an email or call.

<email>
<phone>
(edited to remove vulgarities in accordance with forum rules)

My response:
Why is it political? Larger mass murders have happened throughout our history with stuff anyone can legally by at any corner store. Why aren't people talking about that? Why is the President talking about this and not more atrocious crimes against humanity?

Yes, this is certainly political, because it sure isn't logical. I hope when something you believe in is being attacked, you don't decide to not fight back because it isn't PC. If you don't, you've already lost, and the memory of those victims will be tarnished by those don't care about them, but just use them to further their cause.

Your heart is in the right place, but that's what some people are betting on.
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baldeagle
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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby baldeagle » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:29 pm

ctsmith9962 wrote:People need to stop putting blame on video games, guns, god, school, how you are raised, and other crap. It happened because he decided to do it! It is his fault and no one else is to blame. Why does the media try to find all kinds of reason for his action?

The idea that a human being could commit such a vile act without reference to anything outside themselves is myopic. Human beings do not act in a vacuum. Their behaviors are the result of a complex combination of factors including (but not limited to) their environment, their family interactions, their religious beliefs, the culture they live in, the attitudes of those they interact with (which includes not only "real" life acquaintances but tv, movies, books, video games, social networks, etc., etc.) and much, much more.

America has a well known gun culture. That culture makes guns both acceptable and evil. If guns didn't exist, evil people would use whatever means did exist to accomplish the same ends.

So, yes, video games are to blame. They affect your mind in a way they would not be affected were the games not available. So is TV, movies, the American attitude toward sex, the divorce rate and all the other complex factors that we interact with every day. For many of us, we believe these things have no impact on us because we consider ourselves to be "normal". This simply is not true. It is impossible not to be affected by the influences that surround you. The defense is to avoid those things that impact humans negatively, but that is considered "old-fashioned" and "fuddy duddy". The cumulative effect of all these influences manifests itself in a culture that has gone from proud independence and a defiant spirit (as embodied in the thousands of stories of bravery and odds-overcoming known to all Americans) to abject submission to a government that slides ever more quickly toward tyranny every day.

If you think allowing everyone to carry everywhere will solve the problem, then how do you explain this?

The "solution" to this problem is to promote a culture that celebrates life, not death, and promotes individual responsibility. That will reduce the number of occurrences. To completely stop it, you would need a totalitarian society where every person is monitored on video 24/7/365 and there are enough "police" to deal with every "misbehavior" before it affects others. Then your "only" problem would the corruption of government officials.
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philip964
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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby philip964 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:51 pm

I have tried to not get caught up in debates on facebook with friends, but the anti gunners are in a fight picking mood. Here is one and my reply.

Friend A

"I am sad and sickened today. If I hear one person try to tell me "guns don't kill people, people do" I may lose it. The truth is when you make easy for someone to own a gun, people get killed far more frequently.

Intentional homicide rates 2010:

United States: 4.2
Finland: 2.2
Canada: 1.6
Ireland: 1.2
United Kingdom: 1.2
France: 1.1
Australia: 1.0
Sweden: 1.0
Denmark: 0.9
Italy: 0.9
New Zealand: 0.9
Germany: 0.8
Switzerland: 0.7
Norway: 0.6
Austria: 0.6
Japan: 0.3
Iceland: 0.3

The difference between the above nations and the U.S.? They have stricter gun ownership laws. The U.S. has the highest per capita gun ownership in the world. The nation with the strictest gun ownership laws? Japan. When will we pull our heads out and start to care more about our kids than our guns??"

Me

"Mexico, where guns are completely banned 16.9"

Friend A

"I believe Mexico gets a majority of their "banned" guns from us. And the law is not enforced by fearful and/or corrupt police."

Friend of A

"what a lousy comparison .. the mexican drug cartels. who in their right mind could possibly defend anyone's right to own assault weapons at this time."

Did I miss something was an assault weapon used?

Friend A

"I'm surprised that you would be against gun control. Or are you? I never would have guessed that."

Me

"I am for the Bill of Rights. You are aware that Guns are illegal in Mexico, New York, Chicago, and at all schools and college campuses. They were illegal at the Aurora Movie theater where Batman was showing and they were illegal at the Clackamas Mall in Oregon where the last mass shooting was till this one. Sick people do not attack police stations, they attack schools because they want victims. They do not want to be a victim themselves at the hand of their intended target. The Israeli method is to give the fangs back to the Sheepdog, who is protecting the sheep. The wolves will stay away. This has worked for them since 1970 when they had a mass school shooting. I was a sheep without a sheep dog when armed Mexicans robbed the bank I was in. I never want to be a victim again. I never want to be with my hands in the air helpless as women are abused and screaming. Do you blame me? You are a nurse, I understand your position. You see the results of what guns do. Guns cannot be uninvented. We do not live on an island. They are with us and will be forever. The only decision is who will have them, honest citizens or criminals. My vote is for honest citizens."


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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby pcgizzmo » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:53 pm

ctsmith9962 wrote:
jayinsat wrote:Although the left will launch a full assault on gun rights and many of you have blamed movies, games etc, I believe all those reasons miss the mark. Nothing like this happened before God, and more specifically, the fear of The Lord was banned from society and our schools. Our kids are not allowed to pray, Jesus name can't be mentioned and God, we are told, is just a fairy tell. Even Christmas is forbidden. It's X-mas so we don't offend.

Without a moral fiber, humanity will rapidly devolve into its most base form. We are clearly seeing this. Our moral foundation was built upon the 10 commandments and we've shattered that. Why wouldn't we expect evil to reign?

Who's offended now?


I do not believe Jesus but I still have moral fiber.


I got in trouble for talking about Religion on here not too long ago. I won't say any more but it seems to me God didn't do much to take care of these little kids. Someone in that massacre is probably thanking God he spared there kids. The flip side to that is God didn't look out for the other ones. Hmmmm... Maybe things just happen and God doesn't have anything to do with it.

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baldeagle
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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby baldeagle » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:59 pm

pcgizzmo wrote:I got in trouble for talking about Religion on here not too long ago. I won't say any more but it seems to me God didn't do much to take care of these little kids. Someone in that massacre is probably thanking God he spared there kids. The flip side to that is God didn't look out for the other ones. Hmmmm... Maybe things just happen and God doesn't have anything to do with it.

Or maybe, just maybe, God isn't the only actor on the stage.
The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation where the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison
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A-R
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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby A-R » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:17 pm

Good, brief analysis by Masaad Ayoob:

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAy ... -monsters/

We don’t hear of mass deaths of children in school fires these days: fire drills have long since been commonplace, led by trained school staff, not to mention sprinkler systems and smoke alarms and strategically placed fire extinguishers that can nip a blaze in the bud while firefighters are en route.

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Oldgringo
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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby Oldgringo » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:43 pm

pcgizzmo wrote:
{snip}

I got in trouble for talking about Religion on here not too long ago. I won't say any more but it seems to me God didn't do much to take care of these little kids. Someone in that massacre is probably thanking God he spared there kids. The flip side to that is God didn't look out for the other ones. Hmmmm... Maybe things just happen and God doesn't have anything to do with it.


That's pretty much the conclusion I have come to as a result of my youngest son being struck and killed by a car on his way home from school on the Monday before Thanksgiving 31 years ago. The really hard part for these bereaved CT parents is ahead of 'em when all the well-wishers go back to their lives.

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Keith B
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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby Keith B » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:00 pm

Drop all of the religious discussion. Doesn't play into this as we know it today.
Keith
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Psalm 82:3-4


gringo pistolero
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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby gringo pistolero » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:10 pm

A-R wrote:Good, brief analysis by Masaad Ayoob:

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAy ... -monsters/

We don’t hear of mass deaths of children in school fires these days: fire drills have long since been commonplace, led by trained school staff, not to mention sprinkler systems and smoke alarms and strategically placed fire extinguishers that can nip a blaze in the bud while firefighters are en route.

Also, when there's a fire inside a school or shopping mall, they don't lock the doors to trap people inside.
I sincerely apologize to anybody I offended by suggesting the Second Amendment also applies to The People who don't work for the government.


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Re: Mass Shooting in Connecticut-THREAD NAME CHANGE

Postby stroo » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:43 pm

Gun control is the feel good solution. But like almost every feel good solution that the politicians come up with, it doesn't work. Ayoob is right on.

The solution is to train teachers and other to personnel in school to defend themselves and their students.

We need to have policies in place in each school that limits access during school hours to one point. But that doesn't do any good if the people at that point or immediately beyond it, as in this case, don't have any real means of stopping someone.

Lockdowns can work in the right situations although in this case it probably would have made it easier for the BG to kill more kids if he had not killed himself when he did.

Escape through windows could also work although in this case it appears most of the kids were killed in one classroom. Probably no time for escape there.

It appears to me that the only thing that really could have stopped this one is a couple people armed at the entrance.

I need to talk to my school about that. I think they have the same problem.


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