MN: Police officer shoots kills CHL in traffic stop streamed live on Facebook as he dies

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Txtension
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Re: MN: Police officer shoots kills CHL in traffic stop streamed live on Facebook as he dies

#91

Post by Txtension »

tx85,

With that said, why couldn't congress write

...to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

Seems like a lot of extraneous verbiage. I'm led to conclude that congress couldn't write it constitutionally without "interstate commerce." When the federal gov reworked the GFSZ, pretty much all they did was add interstate commerce to magically resurrect that unconstitutional law. As the ATF presents it, owning/possessing a firearm is affecting interstate commerce.

...
I decided not to continue on half-cocked and do some reading, and I found this, which appears to support my point (That USC 18 922 doesn't apply to Mr.Castille).
...The burden on Wilson’s core Second Amendment right is not severe. Title 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(3), 27 C.F.R. § 478.11, and the Open Letter bar only the sale of firearms to Wilson–not her possession of firearms. Wilson could have amassed legal firearms before acquiring a registry card, and 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(3), 27 C.F.R. § 478.11, and the Open Letter would WILSON V. LYNCH 15 not impede her right to keep her firearms or to use them to protect herself and her home.
https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/ ... -15700.pdf
last paragraph of page 14

Regardless, you've given me a good homework assignment this weekend! :tiphat:

edit I think you addressed some of my concerns in the post prior to this, which I haphazardly restated again. I'm low on sleep. I'll concede your clarification of GFSZ history is superior to my recollection.

tx85
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Re: MN: Police officer shoots kills CHL in traffic stop streamed live on Facebook as he dies

#92

Post by tx85 »

Txtension wrote:I decided not to continue on half-cocked and do some reading, and I found this, which appears to support my point (That USC 18 922 doesn't apply to Mr.Castille).
...The burden on Wilson’s core Second Amendment right is not severe. Title 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(3), 27 C.F.R. § 478.11, and the Open Letter bar only the sale of firearms to Wilson–not her possession of firearms. Wilson could have amassed legal firearms before acquiring a registry card, and 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(3), 27 C.F.R. § 478.11, and the Open Letter would WILSON V. LYNCH 15 not impede her right to keep her firearms or to use them to protect herself and her home.
No, Wilson v. Lynch doesn't support your point. In the part you quoted the court is referring specifically to (d)(3), not the entire § 922. Why doesn't the statement consider (g)(3)? Because they ruled that the plaintiff didn't have standing to challenge the prohibition on possession by unlawful drug users. When they say that "Wilson could have amassed legal firearms before acquiring a registry card" that is in the context of the court accepting as true plaintiff's claim that she doesn't actually use illegal drugs (but merely has a medical marijuana card that she doesn't use):
The panel held that plaintiff’s Second Amendment claims did not fall within the direct scope of United States v. Dugan, 657 F.3d 998 (9th Cir. 2011), which held that the Second Amendment does not protect the rights of unlawful drug users to bear arms. Taking plaintiff’s allegations in her first amended complaint as true – that she chose not to use medical marijuana – the panel concluded that plaintiff was not actually an unlawful drug user.
Standing requires, among other elements, a “concrete and particularized” injury that is “actual or imminent, not conjectural or hypothetical.” Lujan v Defs. of Wildlife, 504 U.S. 555, 560 (1992) (internal quotation marks omitted). Section 922(g)(3) criminalizes possession or receipt of a firearm by a unlawful drug user or a person addicted to a controlled substance. Wilson has not alleged that she is an unlawful drug user or that she is addicted to any controlled substance. Nor has she alleged that she possessed or received a firearm. Accordingly, Wilson has not alleged that § 922(g)(3) has injured her in any way. For the same reasons, she also has not shown a “genuine threat of imminent prosecution” under § 922(g)(3), as is generally required of plaintiffs raising pre-enforcement challenges to criminal statutes outside the First Amendment context. San Diego Cty. Gun Rights Comm. v. Reno, 98 F.3d 1121, 1126 (9th Cir. 1996) (internal quotation marks omitted). Accordingly, we affirm on the ground of lack of standing the district court’s dismissal of Wilson’s claims concerning § 922(g)(3).
So far, every Circuit Court that has actually reached the merits of (g)(3) has upheld it as constitutional:

U.S. v. Yancey (2010, 7th Circuit):
Matthew Yancey pleaded guilty to possessing a firearm as an unlawful user of marijuana but reserved the right to argue on appeal that the offense of conviction, 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(3), violates the Second Amendment as interpreted in District of Columbia v. Heller, 128 S.Ct. 2783 (2008). We conclude that the statute is constitutional and affirm Yancey's conviction.
U.S. v. Seay (2010, 8th Circuit):
Andrew Seay was indicted and pled guilty to possession of a firearm while being an unlawful user of, or addicted to, a controlled substance, in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(g)(3) and 924(a)(2), and was sentenced by the district court to nine months imprisonment. Seay filed this timely appeal, arguing that the government unnecessarily delayed his indictment and that his conviction is unconstitutional under the Second Amendment. The government moved to dismiss Seay's appeal on the grounds that Seay waived his appeal rights by pleading guilty. We grant the government's motion in part, deny it in part, and affirm Seay's conviction.
U.S. v. Dugan (2011, 9th Circuit):
Moreover, unlike people who have been convicted of a felony or committed to a mental institution and so face a lifetime ban, an unlawful drug user may regain his right to possess a firearm simply by ending his drug abuse. The restriction in § 922(g)(3) is far less onerous than those affecting felons and the mentally ill. Yancey, 621 F.3d at 686–87. Because Congress may constitutionally deprive felons and mentally ill people of the right to possess and carry weapons, we conclude that Congress may also prohibit illegal drug users from possessing firearms.
U.S. v. Carter (2014, 4th Circuit):
Following his conviction and sentencing for possessing two firearms while being an unlawful user of and addicted to a controlled substance (marijuana), in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(3), Benjamin Carter appealed, contending that § 922(g)(3) infringed on his right to bear arms, in violation of the Second Amendment. We vacated the judgment and remanded the case to the district court to allow the government to substantiate the fit between § 922(g)(3) and the government's important interest in protecting the community from gun violence.

See United States v. Carter ("Carter I"), 669 F.3d 411 (4th Cir.2012). After taking evidence from both sides, the district court held that the government had carried its burden in justifying the regulation of guns under § 922(g)(3), and Carter filed this second appeal.

Because we agree with the district court that the government adequately demonstrated a reasonable fit between its important interest in protecting the community from gun violence and § 922(g)(3), which disarms unlawful drug users and addicts, we now affirm.

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Re: MN: Police officer shoots kills CHL in traffic stop streamed live on Facebook as he dies

#93

Post by stroo »

The officer was released by the City. Apparently a negotiated settlement. He should have been fired.
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Re: MN: Police officer shoots kills CHL in traffic stop streamed live on Facebook as he dies

#94

Post by nightmare69 »

stroo wrote:The officer was released by the City. Apparently a negotiated settlement. He should have been fired.
I'm sure is is apart of a police union. Also you can't fire someone who hasn't broken the law or Dept policy.
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Re: MN: Police officer shoots kills CHL in traffic stop streamed live on Facebook as he dies

#95

Post by apostate »

If he didn't break the law or violate department policy, why are they paying $3 million to avoid the possibility of a lawsuit?
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Re: MN: Police officer shoots kills CHL in traffic stop streamed live on Facebook as he dies

#96

Post by E.Marquez »

apostate wrote:If he didn't break the law or violate department policy, why are they paying $3 million to avoid the possibility of a lawsuit?
Very simple because law suits are cheaper to settle regardless of wrong doing then to defend.
You can be sued at the drop of a hat for very little out of pocket $$ buy in, it takes deep pockets to defend yourself against that suit, even if you have the proof and evidence that would likely result in you wining the trial. It is often a business and economic decision to just settle and make the suit go away.
I have the unfortunate personal experience to know this all first hand, and the research i did because of it leads me to believe it is so common it is a cottage industry with a certain demographic of lawyers.
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Re: MN: Police officer shoots kills CHL in traffic stop streamed live on Facebook as he dies

#97

Post by philip964 »

E.Marquez wrote:
apostate wrote:If he didn't break the law or violate department policy, why are they paying $3 million to avoid the possibility of a lawsuit?
Very simple because law suits are cheaper to settle regardless of wrong doing then to defend.
You can be sued at the drop of a hat for very little out of pocket $$ buy in, it takes deep pockets to defend yourself against that suit, even if you have the proof and evidence that would likely result in you wining the trial. It is often a business and economic decision to just settle and make the suit go away.
I have the unfortunate personal experience to know this all first hand, and the research i did because of it leads me to believe it is so common it is a cottage industry with a certain demographic of lawyers.
The cost of the lawsuit is not just the cost of the attorney to defend you. It is primarily the cost of the judgement.

If you think the legal fees will be $100,000 through trial and you believe you will win, then you can offer $20,000 lets say, to make it go away. The opposing council may also realize he may not win and convince his client to take the money and run.

However, if the legal fees are again $100,000, however this time you feel you will lose and you fear the jury will be upset and will hit you with a $10,000,000 judgement. You settle for $3,000,000.

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Re: MN: Police officer shoots kills CHL in traffic stop streamed live on Facebook as he dies

#98

Post by ninjabread »

But. But. But he can't be fired because he did nothing wrong!
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