Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

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MechAg94
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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby MechAg94 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:49 am

bblhd672 wrote:
warnmar10 wrote:
Liberty wrote:So many prosecutions rely on an officers testimony. We tend to give our LEOs the benefit of the doubt in jury trials. LEOs caught lying, have far reaching effects. We tend to trust the LEO's testimony in courts against defendants in court because they are supposed to be the good guys. Everytime a case like this happens our confidence in their honors erodes. The lies do more damage to their honor than the actual transgressions.
In my experience, in life in general, the people I encounter run the gamut from "salt of the earth" to "scum of the earth" and everything in between. This holds true for the coworkers at every job I've ever held, fellow parishioners at church and for every police officer too.

Taken as a group, the police officer/s you encounter have about the same odds of being unscrupulous as the bank tellers or the roofing contractors you encounter.

Police officers are perfectly capable of lying or obfuscating. Some of them would never ever do that. Many of them are more likely to lie or obfuscate than not. All the others lie somewhere in between. They're just like everyone else.


Except "everyone else" doesn't get the benefit of the doubt when it's their word against a state sponsored enforcer.

And if I screw up and shoot in self defense when there is no credible threat (or a bystander gets shot), the cops and prosecutor will happily arrest me and charge me with manslaughter or murder. The widow should sue, but the officers who fired should be up on murder charges. Failure to verify an address has no excuse.

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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby goose » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:09 am

They'll be acquitted of murder because some version of negligent homicide won't be pursued. My best guess while being a very amateur fortune teller.
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Soccerdad1995
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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:41 am

And people still wonder why we need the right to keep and bear arms.....
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby warnmar10 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:42 am

mloamiller wrote:...
However, I think the odds of a LEO doing something like this are a lot less than "everyone else."
In large part this depends on the screening and training practices of the hiring agency.


mloamiller wrote: Just like LTC holders, there are some who will break the law, but statistics show that as a percentage, they are much, much less likely to than the general public. I would like to think the same is true of our law enforcement officers.
Police officers have a much higher chance of avoiding prosecution when they step over the line than LTC holders do. In any event, it is a rare case indeed that an officer is prosecuted for embellishing a police report or for completely omitting unflattering details from a report.

Put 12 officers in a group, dress them all in body armor then get them all amped-up to forcibly breach a door to make a felony arrest... civil rights and common sense go out the window and the likelihood of something going tragically wrong increases exponentially. It is the very definition of mob behavior.

FWIW - I'm not a cop hater, but I'm also not a sycophant. They have a tough job to do and when I dial 911 I really want a cop to show up and deal with, whatever. I just hope that neither my dog or I get shot when they do show up.

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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby warnmar10 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:44 am

Soccerdad1995 wrote:And people still wonder why we need the right to keep and bear arms.....
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I'm not sure "well regulated" is a high enough standard.

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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby The Annoyed Man » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:33 pm

bblhd672 wrote:
Lynyrd wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/26/mississippi-police-shoot-kill-man-while-serving-arrest-warrant-at-wrong-home.html

Mississippi police officers shot a mechanic to death Sunday after the cops served an arrest warrant at the wrong residence, according to multiple media reports.


Not only did they try to server a warrant at the wrong address, they shot an innocent man while they were at the wrong address. His wife claims the police account of what went wrong isn't true. Someone got killed, no one got arrested. :mad5


If you're mad about this read the book " Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces" by Radley Balko. This is not an isolated or rare incident.

What he said. Read the book. Sadly, this is not unheard of. What's very rare, however, is any kind of accountability on the part of the murdering cops.
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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby warnmar10 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:59 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
bblhd672 wrote:If you're mad about this read the book " Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces" by Radley Balko. This is not an isolated or rare incident.

What he said. Read the book. Sadly, this is not unheard of. What's very rare, however, is any kind of accountability on the part of the murdering cops.
Accountability is difficult to come by when the police investigate the police.

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parabelum
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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby parabelum » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:01 pm

And it keeps happening because nothing is ever done to significantly punish the offenders and their respective departments & cities.

So, in just few weeks, maybe even days, 90% will forget this and all the other "incidents" such as this one, 7% will continue to fume and 3% will be sure to stay alert and channel our anger into readiness.

No matter how old. No matter where. There are those of us who will never forget Finicum, Castile, Damond and all others who were executed at the hands of trigger happy thug in uniform. I for one am still waiting on police union to say a word about any of this. :waiting:

What's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. This was a blatant murder of an innocent person. Family shattered. Father gone. Husband gone. Son gone. All because the senses of heads of certain LE depts. are gone.
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warnmar10
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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby warnmar10 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:13 pm

parabelum wrote:And it keeps happening because nothing is ever done to significantly punish the offenders and their respective departments & cities.

So, in just few weeks, maybe even days, 90% will forget this and all the other "incidents" such as this one, 7% will continue to fume and 3% will be sure to stay alert and channel our anger into readiness.

No matter how old. No matter where. There are those of us who will never forget Finicum, Castile, Damond and all others who were executed at the hands of trigger happy thug in uniform. I for one am still waiting on police union to say a word about any of this. :waiting:

What's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. This was a blatant murder of an innocent person. Family shattered. Father gone. Husband gone. Son gone. All because the senses of heads of certain LE depts. are gone.
IMMHO... The root of the problem can be traced roughly to the time when "they" transitioned from being police officers to law enforcers. This roughly coincides with the time every agency formed its own SWAT team.


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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby ninjabread » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:25 pm

The more I read stories like this and that murdered Sheila in Minneapolis, the more sympathy I have for the #BLM narrative.
This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby Lynyrd » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:55 pm

ninjabread wrote:The more I read stories like this and that murdered Sheila in Minneapolis, the more sympathy I have for the #BLM narrative.


I don't have any sympathy for any narrative that is based on race. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. A person is not more right, or more wrong if their skin is of a different color.

What angers me is that police don't get arrested and charged when they commit a crime. They get placed on administrative leave, or suspension, while their superiors investigate and decide whether or not they followed procedure. IMHO the double standard of accountability influences the mindset of those few LEO who are at high risk to commit these kind of crimes. And yes, they are crimes. Crimes against the society which they have sworn to protect and serve. Until cops are willing to instantly call a crime a crime no matter whether the perpetrator wore blue or not, this kind of problem will continue. That may be a narrow minded and uninformed opinion from someone who has never been LEO, and has no family that is LEO. But the double standard is glaringly obvious.

Rant over.

And the next time I see an LEO who needs help, I'll jump to their aid. I will not paint them all with the same brush. Doing so would make me no better than the racists who see everything through colorized lenses.
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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby The Annoyed Man » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:03 am

I agree with Lynyrd, in that we need to be careful to not paint all LEO with the same brush. The problem the LEO community has is an old one.....the horrible actions of a few bad apples bringing shame and dishonor on the heads and shoulders of good decent cops, making their jobs that much harder. I think we need to remember that there are LOTS of LEO who read these stories, and agree with us that not only is justice not served, but that evil is encouraged whenever a cop gets away with murdering a citizen without any consequences to their own liberty. In the previously mentioned book, "Rise of the Warrior Cop: the Militarization of America's Police Forces", the author, Radley Balko, gives examples of officers who cringed at what they were ordered to do, and then went on to become activists against this kind of thing.

So remember that the good cops still considerably outnumber the bad ones. It's just that the actions of the bad ones are so appalling that it is hard to see beyond them to the good ones who actually agree with us.

But there is no doubt that the policing arm of gov't at all levels has become the enforcement arm. I'd like a LEO to describe to me how, beyond his personal recognition of my 4th Amendment rights, I still even have any 4th Amendment protections in the eyes of law enforcement at large. When the police won't police themselves, and their masters (apparently not us) won't police them, then who makes sure that the rights of the individual citizen are always placed ahead of an ambitious prosecutor's crapulent need to make a name for himself at election time?
"Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself."—Hookalakah Meshobbab
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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby Jusme » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:29 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:I agree with Lynyrd, in that we need to be careful to not paint all LEO with the same brush. The problem the LEO community has is an old one.....the horrible actions of a few bad apples bringing shame and dishonor on the heads and shoulders of good decent cops, making their jobs that much harder. I think we need to remember that there are LOTS of LEO who read these stories, and agree with us that not only is justice not served, but that evil is encouraged whenever a cop gets away with murdering a citizen without any consequences to their own liberty. In the previously mentioned book, "Rise of the Warrior Cop: the Militarization of America's Police Forces", the author, Radley Balko, gives examples of officers who cringed at what they were ordered to do, and then went on to become activists against this kind of thing.

So remember that the good cops still considerably outnumber the bad ones. It's just that the actions of the bad ones are so appalling that it is hard to see beyond them to the good ones who actually agree with us.

But there is no doubt that the policing arm of gov't at all levels has become the enforcement arm. I'd like a LEO to describe to me how, beyond his personal recognition of my 4th Amendment rights, I still even have any 4th Amendment protections in the eyes of law enforcement at large. When the police won't police themselves, and their masters (apparently not us) won't police them, then who makes sure that the rights of the individual citizen are always placed ahead of an ambitious prosecutor's crapulent need to make a name for himself at election time?




TAM, I obviously, can't speak for all LEO either current, or former, but in my case, I was very cognizant, of everyone's 4A rights. I am sure that a lot of crime went, undetected, and unpunished, because I refused, to overstep, my authority, to search, or even, enter a home, or vehicle, without proper authorization, i.e. a warrant. You are correct, there is, and has been, for a long time, a mindset, among several LEO, and their superiors, that they are the "enforcers" of the streets. I don't have the answers, to try reverse that, but there is at least a certain amount of blame to be laid, at the feet of civilians. Those who push, for stricter, laws, those who "demand" that the police should "make criminals pay" when, as stated, the police, are not there to be judge, jury, and executioner. They put pressure on elected officials, who in turn pressure the police chiefs, who then pressure their department's personnel. You are correct, there are so many good LEO, that have to work among the turmoil, criticism, and undeserved, bad reputations, caused by the bad apples, that it becomes, almost unbearable. There is a "danged if you do" and danged if you don't" conundrum, for most officers. It is also, very frustrating for officers, to see so many criminals, turned back out on the streets, because it is more cost effective to take a plea bargain, than to go through a trial.

This case, like so many others, at least in my opinion, comes down, to over zealousness. This was not a serial murder case, or even, a drug dealer, who had shown a propensity for violence. This was an assault, case. Why the need for a night time, raid? According to neighbors, the police had dealt with the suspect in the past, so I'm sure that they could have devised a way to make the arrest, without putting innocent people at risk, or even law enforcement personnel. Also, from what I gathered, the arresting unit, was not the local constabulary, but from an adjoining city. Coordinating better with the local department, or even allowing them to serve the warrant, may have gone a long way towards, preventing this tragedy. Going to the wrong address, was not the only tactical mistake made, but that one falls directly at the feet of the coordinating supervisor. JMHO
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parabelum
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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby parabelum » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:39 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:I agree with Lynyrd, in that we need to be careful to not paint all LEO with the same brush. The problem the LEO community has is an old one.....the horrible actions of a few bad apples bringing shame and dishonor on the heads and shoulders of good decent cops, making their jobs that much harder. I think we need to remember that there are LOTS of LEO who read these stories, and agree with us that not only is justice not served, but that evil is encouraged whenever a cop gets away with murdering a citizen without any consequences to their own liberty. In the previously mentioned book, "Rise of the Warrior Cop: the Militarization of America's Police Forces", the author, Radley Balko, gives examples of officers who cringed at what they were ordered to do, and then went on to become activists against this kind of thing.

So remember that the good cops still considerably outnumber the bad ones. It's just that the actions of the bad ones are so appalling that it is hard to see beyond them to the good ones who actually agree with us.

But there is no doubt that the policing arm of gov't at all levels has become the enforcement arm. I'd like a LEO to describe to me how, beyond his personal recognition of my 4th Amendment rights, I still even have any 4th Amendment protections in the eyes of law enforcement at large. When the police won't police themselves, and their masters (apparently not us) won't police them, then who makes sure that the rights of the individual citizen are always placed ahead of an ambitious prosecutor's crapulent need to make a name for himself at election time?



:iagree:


In the words of Juvenal, "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" , or "Who will guard the guards themselves?".
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Re: Mississippi Cops shoot man at wrong address

Postby bblhd672 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:19 am

Jusme wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:I agree with Lynyrd, in that we need to be careful to not paint all LEO with the same brush. The problem the LEO community has is an old one.....the horrible actions of a few bad apples bringing shame and dishonor on the heads and shoulders of good decent cops, making their jobs that much harder. I think we need to remember that there are LOTS of LEO who read these stories, and agree with us that not only is justice not served, but that evil is encouraged whenever a cop gets away with murdering a citizen without any consequences to their own liberty. In the previously mentioned book, "Rise of the Warrior Cop: the Militarization of America's Police Forces", the author, Radley Balko, gives examples of officers who cringed at what they were ordered to do, and then went on to become activists against this kind of thing.

So remember that the good cops still considerably outnumber the bad ones. It's just that the actions of the bad ones are so appalling that it is hard to see beyond them to the good ones who actually agree with us.

But there is no doubt that the policing arm of gov't at all levels has become the enforcement arm. I'd like a LEO to describe to me how, beyond his personal recognition of my 4th Amendment rights, I still even have any 4th Amendment protections in the eyes of law enforcement at large. When the police won't police themselves, and their masters (apparently not us) won't police them, then who makes sure that the rights of the individual citizen are always placed ahead of an ambitious prosecutor's crapulent need to make a name for himself at election time?




TAM, I obviously, can't speak for all LEO either current, or former, but in my case, I was very cognizant, of everyone's 4A rights. I am sure that a lot of crime went, undetected, and unpunished, because I refused, to overstep, my authority, to search, or even, enter a home, or vehicle, without proper authorization, i.e. a warrant. You are correct, there is, and has been, for a long time, a mindset, among several LEO, and their superiors, that they are the "enforcers" of the streets. I don't have the answers, to try reverse that, but there is at least a certain amount of blame to be laid, at the feet of civilians. Those who push, for stricter, laws, those who "demand" that the police should "make criminals pay" when, as stated, the police, are not there to be judge, jury, and executioner. They put pressure on elected officials, who in turn pressure the police chiefs, who then pressure their department's personnel. You are correct, there are so many good LEO, that have to work among the turmoil, criticism, and undeserved, bad reputations, caused by the bad apples, that it becomes, almost unbearable. There is a "danged if you do" and danged if you don't" conundrum, for most officers. It is also, very frustrating for officers, to see so many criminals, turned back out on the streets, because it is more cost effective to take a plea bargain, than to go through a trial.

This case, like so many others, at least in my opinion, comes down, to over zealousness. This was not a serial murder case, or even, a drug dealer, who had shown a propensity for violence. This was an assault, case. Why the need for a night time, raid? According to neighbors, the police had dealt with the suspect in the past, so I'm sure that they could have devised a way to make the arrest, without putting innocent people at risk, or even law enforcement personnel. Also, from what I gathered, the arresting unit, was not the local constabulary, but from an adjoining city. Coordinating better with the local department, or even allowing them to serve the warrant, may have gone a long way towards, preventing this tragedy. Going to the wrong address, was not the only tactical mistake made, but that one falls directly at the feet of the coordinating supervisor. JMHO


Just so there's no confusion about remarks I've made - I know there are many good active and former LEO's. It's a tough job.
I respect those who obey the rule of law and the Constitution. Not so much those who do what they are told by their political masters without regard to the rights of the people. However, I will give benefit of doubt until proven wrong. If I see a LEO in need of assistance, I will render without question.

The "Rise of Warriror Cop" book clearly says that the blame for the things we are seeing lies in leadership, including departmental, city, state and federal. Over zealousness to crush citizens rights by creating "wars" on perceived social ills and then "discovering" the ability to also crush Constitutionally protected rights by seizing property and profiting from it without due process. Add in a healthy dose of political correctness, mixed with diversity hiring instead of merit and suitability, top off with prosecutors and judges unwilling to deal harshly with violent repeat offenders and here's where we have gotten.

The time is now for this discussion to be had at all levels of government, if in fact there is anyone left who actually cares about the Constitutionally protected rights of the people. As more and more LEO's retire or quit in disgust over the tactics being used, it appears they are being replaced by people who are more than willing to just do what they are told. Just because some black robed hack has said something is legal for police to do doesn't make it okay to violate inalienable rights protected by the Constitution.
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