Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

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Grundy1133
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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby Grundy1133 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:54 pm

ELB wrote:
No, I wouldn't either, but she didn't act like she thought he was a going to a be a problem. She calls an adult male (and he was not weak looking) into her office, with only her young (teenage?) son there as well, to slap the cuffs on him? Aside from the young boy probably not being of much help in an altercation, it was her son for crying out loud. Who puts their kid in that situation?

In any case I don't see from the video how she was not convicted.

Holy smokes.

the charge was 1st degree murder. it wasnt pre-meditated so she got off.... now manslaughter or 3rd degree murder, she'd be rotting behind bars
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warnmar10
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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby warnmar10 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:06 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:the charge was 1st degree murder. it wasnt pre-meditated so she got off.... now manslaughter or 3rd degree murder, she'd be rotting behind bars
At the 00:00:59 mark she starts heading for the desk drawer and fires at 00:01:05. It does seem clear that when she started toward the desk drawer and right up until she shoot him in the back that she was carrying out a plan, as in she decided to shoot him at about 58 seconds then shot him 7 seconds later. I'm not sure what the time constraints are on premeditation.

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mojo84
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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby mojo84 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:14 pm

I think this is an example of someone that had already decided to shoot before she pulled the gun. This is the kind of situation I was referring to in the other thread about being careful about making up your mind you have to shoot if you pull your gun. I wouldn't count on getting off the same as she did.


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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby Pilgrim » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:30 pm

I did not watch the video. Just reading the comments it sounds like maybe a failure of our judicial system?


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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby PriestTheRunner » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:46 pm

Pilgrim wrote:I did not watch the video. Just reading the comments it sounds like maybe a failure of our judicial system?


Overall, yes. I would almost assert that the posters here would unanimously say yes, "this is a failure of our judicial system".

(The following are stipulation and hearsay...)
1. Heavy-handed DA that pursued too high a crime level
2. Judge decided to burn the DA, knew the bondswoman, or knew the deceased and decided accordingly to not give instruction for lower sentencing.
3. Failure to secure a prisoner by the bondswoman (I think all can agree that if you are going to arrest someone, you need to be ready...)

All of which fall under "our judicial system".

Now, it is possible that there is some legal justification for the bondswoman 'apprehending a prisoner' or 'that he tried to draw a gun', but it isn't plainly apparent from the video.


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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby rotor » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:16 pm

Or jury nullification. Without actually being there it is hard to know what was presented. The video looks bad but this is all that we are seeing.

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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby ELB » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:24 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:the charge was 1st degree murder. it wasnt pre-meditated so she got off.... now manslaughter or 3rd degree murder, she'd be rotting behind bars


In Oklahoma it is “malice aforethought” rather than “premeditation”, but either one only requires that you intended to kill the person that you killed. Pulling a pistol out of the drawer and shooting at someone seem like a strong indicator that you were at least willing to kill somebody, especially given how unhappy she obviously was with his behavior.

It certainly wasn’t an accidental shooting, like an ND. 2nd° murder does not require premeditation nor malice aforethought, but it does require a “depraved mind”, Which is indicated by extreme cruelty.
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Grundy1133
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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby Grundy1133 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:32 pm

ELB wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:the charge was 1st degree murder. it wasnt pre-meditated so she got off.... now manslaughter or 3rd degree murder, she'd be rotting behind bars


In Oklahoma it is “malice aforethought” rather than “premeditation”, but either one only requires that you intended to kill the person that you killed. Pulling a pistol out of the drawer and shooting at someone seem like a strong indicator that you were at least willing to kill somebody, especially given how unhappy she obviously was with his behavior.

It certainly wasn’t an accidental shooting, like an ND. 2nd° murder does not require premeditation nor malice aforethought, but it does require a “depraved mind”, Which is indicated by extreme cruelty.

very true... in the vid her son says "MOM, YOU SHOT HIM!" and she calmly replies, "yes. I did."
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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby C-dub » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:57 pm

ELB beat me to it. The time frame can be as short as the second before you pulled the trigger. This case seems to meet that criterion in that she didn't give any warning at all. She just pulled that gun out and shot him without hesitation. She even had to get it from a drawer first.

One thing is for certain, though, get her lawyer's number and get him on retainer just in case. That man or woman is good to get her off on that one.
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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby ScottDLS » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:07 pm

We need to get Duane “Dog” Chapman an OK bond license. He’d just spray em with a giant pepper spray can.
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Oldgringo
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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby Oldgringo » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:14 pm

A jury of her Oklahoma peers found her innocent, what's your problem, in Texas, with that? Who, here in Texas, was bypassed in the Jury selection?

That's the way it works, folk. We can't always have it our way, eh?

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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby C-dub » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:41 am

I wonder if the jury saw this video. As some have mentioned, there is a lot of evidence that juries are often not allowed to see.
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Grundy1133
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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby Grundy1133 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:31 am

C-dub wrote:I wonder if the jury saw this video. As some have mentioned, there is a lot of evidence that juries are often not allowed to see.

the article says the jury saw the video. but who knows if they actually did or not...
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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby Steve5115 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:49 am

It is on ABC 13 News
http://abc13.com/video-released-of-bail-bond-agent-in-shooting-one-of-her-clients-/3223883/

Police said that Carey told them that she and Williams were fighting when she revoked Williams' bond and tried to take him in custody.

Carey was initially arrested on one count of first-degree murder.

But then a jury found Carey not guilty in Williams' murder after prosecutors released the video.

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Re: Video released of Oklahoma bond agent fatally shooting man

Postby JustSomeOldGuy » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:54 am

Based on what I saw in the video, and the fact that victim 1) was shot in the back and 2) did not survive the single gunshot (I'm presuming good EMT response time)

If her intent was a murder, her planning and execution (literally) were excellent.
If her intent as to function as Bond Enforcement, her planning and execution were completely lacking.

it appears to me that 'depraved indifference' was definitely present

If I was in the jury, I would have voted to send her to the house of many doors.....
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