NYC: Anti Semitic attacks increase. Would this happen if NY was shall issue

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: NYC: Anti Semitic attacks increase. Would this happen if NY was shall issue

#16

Post by The Annoyed Man »

Entering the topic late.....

At the risk of sounding clichéd, I’m not Jewish, but some of my best friends are Jews. :lol:

Also, I’m not from NYC, but I did live there for a total of about 3 years back in the 1970s, and I’ll confirm that even back then, that particular neighborhood in Crown Heights already had a long held reputation for being difficult to get along with. Now, I might not be remembering this correctly, so those of you born and reared there might know better than me, but I seem to recall a criminal case back then involving a confrontation between a Jewish youth from Crown Heights and a couple of toughs from a neighboring Italian (?) neighborhood, in which the Jewish kid was beaten to death. I recall that the cause of the beating was purely ethnic animus rather than a crime of robbery or something like that, and in a city which at the time had a pretty large number of murders, this one stood out for its Democrat Steno Pool (AKA “the media”) coverage.

Again, I may not be remembering this correctly, and I may in fact have it backwards.....that it was Jewish kids who beat an Italian (or black, or whatever) kid to death. In any case, it was a high profile story at the time, and it involved someone from Crown Heights.

In re. Jews and guns, anyone remember Bernard Goetz?
On December 22, 1984, Bernhard Goetz shot four alleged muggers[1][2][3][4] on a New York City Subway train in Manhattan. He fired five shots, seriously wounding all four men.
  • 1984 New York City Subway shooting
    Location: New York City, United States
    Date: December 22, 1984
    Attack type: Self-defense
    Weapons: Smith & Wesson Model 38
    Non-fatal injuries: 4
    Perpetrator: Bernhard Goetz
Goetz surrendered to police nine days after the shooting and was eventually charged with attempted murder, assault, reckless endangerment, and several firearms offenses. A jury found him not guilty of all charges except for one count of carrying an unlicensed firearm, for which he served eight months of a one-year sentence. In 1996, one of the shot men, Darrel Cabey, who had been left paraplegic and brain damaged as a result of his injuries, obtained a civil judgment of $43 million against Goetz.[5]

The incident sparked a nationwide debate on race and crime in major cities, the legal limits of self-defense, and the extent to which the citizenry could rely on the police to secure their safety.[3] Goetz, dubbed the "Subway Vigilante" by New York City's press, came to symbolize New Yorkers' frustrations with the high crime rates of the 1980s. He was both praised and vilified in the media and public opinion. The incident has also been cited as a contributing factor to the groundswell movement against urban crime and disorder,[6] and the successful National Rifle Association campaigns to loosen restrictions on the concealed carrying of firearms.[7]
So right there, you have a case of a Jewish man using a gun in self-defense, leading to the national movement which ended with the passage of CHL in Texas 11 years later.

Talk about 6 degrees of separation.....

Edited to add.....
rotor wrote:To be realistic though, even if one could get a LTC in NYC, where would one ever go to practice? It would be a nightmare for the average citizen to find a place to actually fire their weapon. I doubt that a bunch of ranges would open up. In Texas it is easy but in NYC? It's almost impossible to park a car let alone shoot a gun.
As a practical matter, what rotor says is true.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

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Abraham
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Re: NYC: Anti Semitic attacks increase. Would this happen if NY was shall issue

#17

Post by Abraham »

As abused (in so many ways) Californians are leaving Cal. in droves, why don't Jews leave NYC?

Flyover country people are far less anti-semitic and for the most part, quite welcoming of Jews.

We had Jews in my High School in South Texas and were never a subject of hatred. In fact, their Jewishness was simply not a topic of interest. They blended in with all the rest of us who were predominately Catholic (lots of Hispanics) and the rest of us some form of Protestant. Though, even then I was religiously neutral. I was among a very small minority who thought religion ho-hum or even less...My pals used to kid me when a thunderstorm was imminent to definitely not stand near me as I was way more likely to suffer heavenly lightening wrath with my lack of faith and non-church going ways.

My girlfriend before my wife was a Jew from NYC. We were to be married, but her family was less than enthusiastic to learn of our upcoming nuptials, and for awhile she ignored their pleas not marry this goy. They dispatched her oldest brother to put the kibosh on our plans. Slowly, though he/they won her over while I didn't help much with my outrage at what I considered their perfidy. The fact that I'm not only not Jewish, I'm sort of neutral when it comes to religion. Whatever you prefer when it comes to religion is fine with me.

None of my friends thought her Jewishness an object of particular interest. I still miss her, even though it's been decades since last we met...Yes, I'm happily married to another woman and have been for years, but my former G.F. was a hoot and a half...
Last edited by Abraham on Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NYC: Anti Semitic attacks increase. Would this happen if NY was shall issue

#18

Post by Liberty »

Abraham wrote:As abused (in so many ways) Californians are leaving Cal. in droves, why don't Jews leave NYC?

Flyover country people are far less anti-semitic and for the most part, quite welcoming of Jews.
It's just easier in a place like NYC to be Jewish. Jews are expected by their families to marry another Jew. In most of the country Kosher markets and restaurants are thinly spread out. An orthodox Jew is expected not to drive on the Saboth. That means walking to the synagog on a Friday night. Being in a like minded neighborhood for a compiant Orthadox Jew is more than just being with your own kind, It's about being able to practically live within their religious rules.
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RoyGBiv
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Re: NYC: Anti Semitic attacks increase. Would this happen if NY was shall issue

#19

Post by RoyGBiv »

Abraham wrote:As abused (in so many ways) Californians are leaving Cal. in droves, why don't Jews leave NYC?

Flyover country people are far less anti-semitic and for the most part, quite welcoming of Jews..
Have you been to southeast Florida recently? :lol:
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Abraham
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Re: NYC: Anti Semitic attacks increase. Would this happen if NY was shall issue

#20

Post by Abraham »

I recall reading about O. J.'s debating if turning on an electric light on the Sabbath would be considered a form of labor with laboring on the Sabbath not being allowed this consideration was taken very seriously. I'm not kidding.

So, they had to call a Rabbi for his learned counsel.

Oy Vey!

This sort of wacky complexity, along with food restrictions (cuz ya know God hates ham) is one of the very many reasons I love being a religious neutral. I'm much too lazy to get embroiled in this sort of stuff. This sort of material is part and parcel of all religions. It's not just for Jews, it's for all.

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Re: NYC: Anti Semitic attacks increase. Would this happen if NY was shall issue

#21

Post by Abraham »

RoyGBiv,

As a kid, I lived in Ft. Lauderdale about 6 different times. Plus Miami for a short time and in the Marathon in the keys.

We'd live there and then hitchkike to L.A., stay awhile, to then hitchhike back and go elsewhere and come back. And so it went.

But, now it's been many, many years since last I was there, but yes, it was a mecca (hhhhmmmm) for Jews.

You'd go into a Jewish owned business and all the staff would be arguing with each other like it was recreation and it apparently was...
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RoyGBiv
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Re: NYC: Anti Semitic attacks increase. Would this happen if NY was shall issue

#22

Post by RoyGBiv »

Abraham wrote:You'd go into a Jewish owned business and all the staff would be arguing with each other like it was recreation and it apparently was...
You hit the nail on the head with this.. Thanks for the laugh!

And I could not survive without pork... Between living in the southeast for many years and a lot of time spent in Asia, I believe I've eaten every part of a pig. I love Texas Brisket, don't get me wrong. But, pulled pork butt is "home" for me.

Just back from the Viet grocery in Haltom. Picked up some cow feet to make pitcha this weekend. (No carrots in my version) :drool:
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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Re: NYC: Anti Semitic attacks increase. Would this happen if NY was shall issue

#23

Post by G26ster »

Abraham wrote:You'd go into a Jewish owned business and all the staff would be arguing with each other like it was recreation and it apparently was...
For years I trained Israeli Air Force pilots. We had everything from young lieutenants to generals. Most fun was when we had a general as pilot in command and a lieutenant as co-pilot. You'd have thought the lieutenant would be scared to death to argue with the general. No way, it was just as Abraham described. :lol

I too grew up in a Jewish family in NYC. Left there when I was 20 back in the early sixties. The neighborhood was mixed and my friends were catholic, protestant, and jewish. We never gave it a second thought, but some in our families did. That's just the way of the world for adults - comfort zones. My much older cousin was a NYPD cop, and my biggest thrill when they came to visit was him showing me his revolver. Of course I never touched it. :nono:
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