HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

Discussions about relevant bills filed and their status.

Moderator: Charles L. Cotton


Bulldog1911
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:58 pm

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#166

Post by Bulldog1911 »

apostate wrote:
OldSchool wrote:Is it correct that this does not force colleges to allow employees to have firearms in the parking lot? If so, why? (I was hoping for at least some relief at one of my jobs....)
I don't see that in the text. There's an exemption in the Senate version for prekindergarten through grade 12 schools, but not for universities.
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/ ... 00321E.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

However, the bill only protects employees. It does not seem to limit a company's ability, through policy or trespass notice, to prohibit guns in cars owned/driven by contractors, sub-contractors, consultants, customers, etc.
(B)AAa school district;
(C)AAan open-enrollment charter school, as
defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;
(D)AAa private school, as defined by Section
22.081, Education Code; or
The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? Psalms 27:1

thr_wedge
Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:23 am
Location: Austin

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#167

Post by thr_wedge »

Keith B wrote:
thr_wedge wrote:Please move if this belongs in another place. What is to stop an employer from posting 30.06 signs at the parking lot? Then CHLs would be prohibited by state law (which the SB 321 says is an exception to the new law) and since a CHL is required to have the firearm under SB 321 as part of the new law, you can't claim that you are carrying under the motorist protection act.
CHL is only required if you are in the Gas/Oil industry. And, the way the bill is written, if you are an employee and they have a 30.06 sign on the property, it does not apply to you for the parking lot.
Thanks Keith. So the bill gives express permission for the parking lot. I still don't see how it doesn't apply to a non-CHL holder, but perhaps I am not understanding how the sentence is structured.
NRA member
TSRA member

JKTex
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:28 am
Location: Flower Mound

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#168

Post by JKTex »

thr_wedge wrote:
CHL is only required if you are in the Gas/Oil industry. And, the way the bill is written, if you are an employee and they have a 30.06 sign on the property, it does not apply to you for the parking lot.
Thanks Keith. So the bill gives express permission for the parking lot. I still don't see how it doesn't apply to a non-CHL holder, but perhaps I am not understanding how the sentence is structured.
As Kieth said, and in another way, no sign, even 30.06, will be valid for parking lots (as defined in the bill).

A CHL is only required for employees of petro-chemical companies and can only have a handgun in your vehicle. Non-CHL holders can still be prohibited and no one can have a long gun in their vehicle. That's petro-chemical companies only.

Charles explained what he calls the Farmer Brown and how that applies to employees who work on or service facilities on O&G leases.

apostate
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 2336
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:01 am

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#169

Post by apostate »

JKTex wrote:As Kieth said, and in another way, no sign, even 30.06, will be valid for parking lots (as defined in the bill).
As I read the bill, it seems a 30.06 sign in a parking lot would not apply to employees, but would be 30.06 notice for contractors, sub-contractors, consultants, customers, etc. I would love to be mistaken about that, but that's how I read Senate Bill 321.
User avatar

OldSchool
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 728
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:01 pm
Location: Brazoria County

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#170

Post by OldSchool »

Bulldog1911 wrote:
apostate wrote:
OldSchool wrote:Is it correct that this does not force colleges to allow employees to have firearms in the parking lot? If so, why? (I was hoping for at least some relief at one of my jobs....)
I don't see that in the text. There's an exemption in the Senate version for prekindergarten through grade 12 schools, but not for universities.
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/ ... 00321E.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

However, the bill only protects employees. It does not seem to limit a company's ability, through policy or trespass notice, to prohibit guns in cars owned/driven by contractors, sub-contractors, consultants, customers, etc.
(B)AAa school district;
(C)AAan open-enrollment charter school, as
defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;
(D)AAa private school, as defined by Section
22.081, Education Code; or
??? I guess these are the exceptions, where prohibition may apply. Isn't every public school in a school district around here?
Life is for learning.
IANAL, thank gosh!
NRA Life Member - TSRA - PSC
NRA Certified Basic Rifle Instructor, Chief Range Safety Officer

12/23/2009: Packets delivered.
01/15/2010: Plastic in hand!

apostate
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 2336
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:01 am

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#171

Post by apostate »

OldSchool wrote:
Bulldog1911 wrote:
apostate wrote:
OldSchool wrote:Is it correct that this does not force colleges to allow employees to have firearms in the parking lot? If so, why? (I was hoping for at least some relief at one of my jobs....)
I don't see that in the text. There's an exemption in the Senate version for prekindergarten through grade 12 schools, but not for universities.
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/ ... 00321E.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

However, the bill only protects employees. It does not seem to limit a company's ability, through policy or trespass notice, to prohibit guns in cars owned/driven by contractors, sub-contractors, consultants, customers, etc.
(B)AAa school district;
(C)AAan open-enrollment charter school, as
defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;
(D)AAa private school, as defined by Section
22.081, Education Code; or
??? I guess these are the exceptions, where prohibition may apply. Isn't every public school in a school district around here?
I thought you were asking about universities. Those are treated like any other employer. This bill, like campus carry, doesn't change anything for private or public K-12 AFAICT
User avatar

OldSchool
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 728
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:01 pm
Location: Brazoria County

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#172

Post by OldSchool »

apostate wrote:I thought you were asking about universities. Those are treated like any other employer. This bill, like campus carry, doesn't change anything for private or public K-12 AFAICT
I see what you mean, I guess universities don't have districts as such. I gather that "district" for local colleges is different than "district" for K-12. Learning all the time....

So I might get something small out of this session after all.... :prayer icon:
Life is for learning.
IANAL, thank gosh!
NRA Life Member - TSRA - PSC
NRA Certified Basic Rifle Instructor, Chief Range Safety Officer

12/23/2009: Packets delivered.
01/15/2010: Plastic in hand!
User avatar

Keith B
Moderator
Posts in topic: 7
Posts: 18491
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#173

Post by Keith B »

apostate wrote:
JKTex wrote:As Kieth said, and in another way, no sign, even 30.06, will be valid for parking lots (as defined in the bill).
As I read the bill, it seems a 30.06 sign in a parking lot would not apply to employees, but would be 30.06 notice for contractors, sub-contractors, consultants, customers, etc. I would love to be mistaken about that, but that's how I read Senate Bill 321.
While it might have to be argued, if you are a contractor, consultant, etc and being paid by the business to do work, then by definition you are an employee. Customers would still be prohibited from having a gun in the parking lot.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

Psalm 82:3-4

Hoosier Daddy
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:46 pm
Location: Houston

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#174

Post by Hoosier Daddy »

Keith B wrote:
apostate wrote:
JKTex wrote:As Kieth said, and in another way, no sign, even 30.06, will be valid for parking lots (as defined in the bill).
As I read the bill, it seems a 30.06 sign in a parking lot would not apply to employees, but would be 30.06 notice for contractors, sub-contractors, consultants, customers, etc. I would love to be mistaken about that, but that's how I read Senate Bill 321.
While it might have to be argued, if you are a contractor, consultant, etc and being paid by the business to do work, then by definition you are an employee. Customers would still be prohibited from having a gun in the parking lot.
You should check out Black's Law Dictionary instead. I don't know if Texas employment law, but the federal government also has a definition for employee that's much closer to Black's than to the dictionary.reference.com definition.
Indiana Lifetime Handgun License

Mike from Texas
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 632
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:57 am
Location: D/FW Texas

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#175

Post by Mike from Texas »

It may have been discussed earlier in the thread but I'm having a hard time seeing where it says that this law will apply to non-chl holders.
. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees
I see where it says that this applies to CHL holders specifically but not to non chl holders. Am I interpreting something wrong?
A few Glocks, a few Kahrs, Dan Wesson CBOB 10mm, Dan Wesson CBOB 45ACP, Springer Champion Operator

****************************************************************************************************

Pete92FS
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 513
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:57 am
Location: Houston

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#176

Post by Pete92FS »

Mike from Texas wrote:It may have been discussed earlier in the thread but I'm having a hard time seeing where it says that this law will apply to non-chl holders.
. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees
I see where it says that this applies to CHL holders specifically but not to non chl holders. Am I interpreting something wrong?
IANAL - I interpret that it covers 3 catagories:

1. A Person who has a CHL
or
2. A Person who otherwise lawfully posseses a firearm (MPA)
or
3. A Person who lawfully posseses ammunition.
CHL since 01/26/09

JKTex
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:28 am
Location: Flower Mound

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#177

Post by JKTex »

Mike from Texas wrote:It may have been discussed earlier in the thread but I'm having a hard time seeing where it says that this law will apply to non-chl holders.
. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees
I see where it says that this applies to CHL holders specifically but not to non chl holders. Am I interpreting something wrong?
You quoted the whole thing, so you see it, but you don't see it.

...(1)who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, (2) who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or (3) who lawfully possesses ammunition.

The only place a CHL come into play is petro-chemical plants. There, you must have a CHL and the firearm can only be a handgun. No long guns by anyone and no firearm or ammo of any kind for non-CHL holders.
User avatar

2up1down
Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:47 pm

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#178

Post by 2up1down »

JKTex wrote:
Mike from Texas wrote:It may have been discussed earlier in the thread but I'm having a hard time seeing where it says that this law will apply to non-chl holders.
. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees
I see where it says that this applies to CHL holders specifically but not to non chl holders. Am I interpreting something wrong?
You quoted the whole thing, so you see it, but you don't see it.

...(1)who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, (2) who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or (3) who lawfully possesses ammunition.

The only place a CHL come into play is petro-chemical plants. There, you must have a CHL and the firearm can only be a handgun. No long guns by anyone and no firearm or ammo of any kind for non-CHL holders.
Would you please explain more. I have a CHL and drive a company truck (tanker).
Thank you Sir. I wrote this after reading the bill any comments are appreciated.
viewtopic.php?f=94&t=44858" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Become a Student of the Law we live under and proficient in the protection of yourself: so you may protect your Family, State and way of Live. Awareness is your first defense, avoidance your first tactic. If engagement is forced, Stop when the threat is gone.

Hookemhorns1997
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:33 pm

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#179

Post by Hookemhorns1997 »

I thought the bill only applied to CHL's. Did not catch the MPA part of the bill....
User avatar

Keith B
Moderator
Posts in topic: 7
Posts: 18491
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Re: HB681/SB321 Parking Lots Bill is on the Floor

#180

Post by Keith B »

2up1down wrote:Would you please explain more. I have a CHL and drive a company truck (tanker).
Thank you Sir. I wrote this after reading the bill any comments are appreciated.
viewtopic.php?f=94&t=44858" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If you drive a company owned vehicle, the company can still prohibit you from carrying and this bill does nothing for you. Doesn't matter what type of vehicle it is (car, truck, tractor-trailer, or a tank.) This only applies to personal vehicles in company parking lots.

Now, if your company DOES let you carry, you still have to follow the rules on property of others per the 30.06 or, if you deliver/pick up to/from a petro-chemical plant, then you would have to follow their guidelines or the law as it applies if you are an actual employee or not.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

Psalm 82:3-4
Locked

Return to “2011 Texas Legislative Session”