HB 3639 - SB 1581

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Jasonw560
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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby Jasonw560 » Fri May 20, 2011 5:21 pm

Fair enough. What can I do to help with the education? I believe we need to start early, and get minds changed for the better.

I know it's not right to finger point, and this time Goliath beat David. I guess I just spend so much time researching issues and coming up with my own conclusions based on facts, that it frustrates me when emotions are followed closer that facts.

I am still going to help campaign against Lucio, and for a lot more than what happened this session.

We have parking lots. That's a big deal.

Two years is a long time, but it's not long enough. Let's pick ourselves up wipe our bloodied noses, and prepare for the next round. Start early and keep at it.
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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby Keith B » Fri May 20, 2011 5:26 pm

baldeagle wrote:
Keith B wrote:That is one of the most harmful things you could do. A legislature full of newbies with no clue how to handle bills would be a total catastrophy and you would get NOTHING passed. Everyone would be trying to get their own agendas through and there would be no long term realtionships (good OR bad), so no one would be partnering up to work through issues. :banghead:

This is the kind of thinking that got us in the present situation. We don't need politicians running our legislature. We need citizens who serve briefly, and for the people. The argument that newly elected representatives can't get anything done is the product of politicians convincing the public that only someone who has served a long time can produce results. Nothing could be further from the truth. The truth is that the long-serving politicians are the ones who are screwing things up. Fresh blood and a steady turnover will keep them listening to the ones who elect them. If it takes a long time to become an effective legislator, than perhaps the PROCESS is screwed up and needs to be simplified?


I can see you have your mind made up and trying to talk to you about this would be :deadhorse: So, just remember when you vote against a legislator who has a predominantly pro-gun stance and has a track record to prove it, you are more than likely killing your chances of getting ANY 2A legislation passed for future sessions.
Keith
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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby RPB » Fri May 20, 2011 5:37 pm

I'm watching Senate ... where Wentworth is really ticking off Davis and the anti-gun ppl Davis, and some others are all red and voice shaky angry,

Wentworth is like "Hey, you played parliamentary games with me, it's karma; now you risk getting screwed" (my paraphrase) Dewhurst pretty much using his gavel to also say the same thing.

They are taking SB 1581 back to 2nd reading instead of third ... so Davis is really angry taking it back to simple majority vote instead of super majority vote ... risking changing formula funding schools

They are discussing SB 22; SB 5 and SB 1518

motion to reconsider each deal ...

Democrats have expressed concern that if they pull down too many amendments, it gives Republicans more time to pass stuff Ds oppose.

I've been taking care of a sick niece all day; just got online, was about to write them all asking for them to de-fund schools.. decided to look in
Last edited by RPB on Fri May 20, 2011 5:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Paragrouper
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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby Paragrouper » Fri May 20, 2011 5:38 pm

Jasonw560 wrote:Two years is a long time, but it's not long enough. Let's pick ourselves up wipe our bloodied noses, and prepare for the next round. Start early and keep at it.


:iagree:
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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby RPB » Fri May 20, 2011 5:42 pm

Paragrouper wrote:
Jasonw560 wrote:Two years is a long time, but it's not long enough. Let's pick ourselves up wipe our bloodied noses, and prepare for the next round. Start early and keep at it.


:iagree:


2013 ....
I'll be finding out exactly what type of job John Woods wants ... he graduates in 2012 ... and I have friends in Australia who can help in finding him employment .....
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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby baldeagle » Fri May 20, 2011 6:19 pm

Keith B wrote:I can see you have your mind made up and trying to talk to you about this would be :deadhorse: So, just remember when you vote against a legislator who has a predominantly pro-gun stance and has a track record to prove it, you are more than likely killing your chances of getting ANY 2A legislation passed for future sessions.

And that would be different from this session how?
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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby 4copas » Fri May 20, 2011 6:21 pm

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-legislature/82nd-legislative-session/updated-wentworth-blasts-straus-over-campus-carry/

5/20/2011
Texas Tribune

State Sen. Jeff Wentworth, R-San Antonio, attacked House speaker Joe Straus, R-San Antonio, today for using what he called undue influence last night to strip an amendment from a fiscal matters bill that would allow concealed handguns on college campuses. Wentworth said he will continue to try to find a way to pass his bill legalizing the carrying of handguns in college buildings but at this point he may be running out of time.

Go get'em Wentworth! It seems it's falling on deaf ears, but thanks for not laying down. :smash:
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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby Ivan244 » Fri May 20, 2011 6:48 pm

Actually we do have quite a bit to be thankful for. If/when the parking lot bill is passed that's a huge deal. Plus all the others are more bricks in the wall for honest, responsible, law-abiding citizen. I guess it's human nature to focus on what you don't have versus what you do have.

Straus needs to be gone as Speaker and I have contacted my rep Mr. Gonzales about that. Education is key for the general public but that takes time and $ to get that message out.

And big shout out to Charles and all the others who have labored long and hard on all the issues. We may not have gotten this one but we are getting a lot more done. I've been lurking on this board since the start of this session and finally officially joined:)

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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby Ameer » Fri May 20, 2011 7:10 pm

Jasonw560 wrote:Fair enough. What can I do to help with the education? I believe we need to start early, and get minds changed for the better.

Cut funding for the administrators who spread the lies about HB750 and SB354. That should be a priority for any higher education bills that are still in play.
I believe the basic political division in this country is not between liberals and conservatives but between those who believe that they should have a say in the personal lives of strangers and those who do not.

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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby baldeagle » Fri May 20, 2011 8:22 pm

Wentworth just brought SB 354 up for a vote to suspend. It was shot down again, 19-11. Write down the 11 names. They need to be gone. And so does Speaker Strauss.
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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby flintknapper » Fri May 20, 2011 8:24 pm

baldeagle wrote:
Keith B wrote:I can see you have your mind made up and trying to talk to you about this would be :deadhorse: So, just remember when you vote against a legislator who has a predominantly pro-gun stance and has a track record to prove it, you are more than likely killing your chances of getting ANY 2A legislation passed for future sessions.

And that would be different from this session how?


:lol: ;-)

'Tis a good question.

We are all disappointed, we can agree on that.
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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby RPB » Fri May 20, 2011 8:26 pm

viewtopic.php?f=110&t=45228

Wentworth still trying at least
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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby JJVP » Fri May 20, 2011 9:01 pm

baldeagle wrote:
warhorse10_9 wrote:
baldeagle wrote:
warhorse10_9 wrote:baldeagle, I completely understand how upset you are, I am upset to. Instead of taking out your frustration on Senator Wentworth or other people who actually supported the bill the entire time. I would look at the people who didn't.

Why? There will always be opposition. Supporters aren't really supporters if they can't get it done. Results are what matter, not rhetoric. And the Republicans have utterly failed at producing results. Why, then, should they get a pass?

Again, I will bring up the point of the tables being turned. Are you saying that in the event the Republicans had a minority of seats that you would vote them out of office since they couldn't pass the legislation you wanted.

That is NOT what I am saying. The Republicans had the majority and couldn't get it done. What good are they? We might was well have 31 Democratic Senators.
warhorse10_9 wrote:[Senator Wentworth and other supporters did all they could to pass this legislation given the circumstances. You cannot stall the entire legislative session for one piece of legislation.

Sorry, but that's not true. The Republicans COULD have told the Dems, either this bill comes to a vote or none of yours will. 2/3rds works both ways. But the Republicans paid lip service to campus carry and CHOSE not to fight for it. Oh well, we didn't get it done just doesn't cut it any more. If you can't get it done, get the heck out of office and let someone who WILL get it done take over.

Again I ask, why did we elect Republicans to a majority? So they could get played by minority? Give me a break. I'm sick and tired of namby pamby politicans who claim they believe in things but don't have the guts to see them through.


Well said. I can guarantee that if the Democrats had been the ones in the majority, and they had been the ones for campus carry we would have campus carry today. They would have done whatever it took to get what they wanted passed, even changing the rules. That's what the dems did in congress with Obamacare. They changed the rules until they got it passed. Republican are bunch of wimps that cut tail as soon as they get any opposition. If we continue sending the same idiots to office we will continue getting the same results. They need to grow a couple and stop worrying about getting reelected.

And those who say that Wenworth did all he could I will disagree. He had a chance to get SB354 passed with the 20 votes he had when 2 democrats asked him to hold the vote because they wanted to get a couple of photo opportunities with Michelle Obama. He should have told them, yeah go ahead, and then proceed with the vote. That's waht democrats would have done in his place. Then all the rest of shenanigans with SB5 and SG1581 would have been unnecessary.

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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby JJVP » Fri May 20, 2011 9:38 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I'm mad, frustrated, and disappointed just like everyone else. When the point-of-order was sustained on SB1581, I saw 3 years of work spiral down the political toilet. Alice and the NRA lobbyist felt the same way, perhaps even worse. I've drafted then deleted three posts and this probably isn't the best time for me to "talk" about this session. I'm mad at key people in Austin and I don't want to say something I regret and offend friends here on TexasCHLforum. I do want to make these general statements.

Everything that could possibly be done for campus-carry was done. Senator Wentworth battled harder for this legislation than most legislators do for any bill. The 2/3 rule in the Senate is and always has been a controversial subject. Many years ago we used it to block anti-gun legislation. In recent years, it has worked against us, but not often. I still don't like it.

I want to be candid about the campus-carry bills this session. While it's easy to point to two Senators and say they cost us campus-carry, that's not necessarily accurate. The truth is the opposition to campus-carry was absolutely huge and it was constant. For every pro campus-carry call, fax, or email sent, there were hundreds in opposition. And it never stopped; the calls and emails were coming to the very end. In all my years of legislative work, I've never seen the level of opposition to a gun bill, or any other bill for that matter. For those who watched the hearings in the House and Senate, the daily opposition ran just as strong.

The real irony is that some of the strongest opposition came from the very people we were trying to help -- college students and faculty. That's a hard fact to ignore when you are an elected official. I have no idea why it was so much stronger this session than last, and it certainly wasn't John Woods, though he'll likely take credit for it. He simply doesn't have the influence at the student/faculty level, much less with the deep pocket donors to universities who opposed the bills just as strongly.

It's clear there is a lot of educating that needs to be done before campus-carry passes. We have to remember that the general public simply doesn't care about this issue and the idea of "guns in school" still strikes fear in the hearts of many of those who are not as well educated on the facts of concealed carry and self-defense as are those in the active shooting community. It's not their fault, nor ours, it just the way it is. We have to change that through education.

There is a clear problem in the House and I'll report on that later. For now, let's all just take a step back, cool off, and plan calmly for the 2012 election and the 2013 legislative session. To do otherwise is an exercise in futility and we may damage relationships so vital to success in future sessions.

To the extent some of my posts may have already offended some, I truly apologize. Even grizzled old trial lawyers can get testy now and then. As always, thanks for your support of Texas gun owners.

Chas.


Charles, as you I am very frustrated and have, at times let my frustration get the best of me. I personally don't hold you responsible for what happen and have the utmost respect for all you have done. If I have said anything you thought was directed at you, I apologize. It was not you I was mad at. Again thanks for all you have done. :tiphat:
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Re: HB 3639 - SB 1581

Postby The Annoyed Man » Fri May 20, 2011 9:56 pm

Charles,

Strauss tried to kill the two flagship RKBA bills this year, and he got what he wanted with one of them, and unless something has happened in the last 24 hours since I hit the road, the other one is still not passed. He did the same thing the last time, and he got what he wanted. Is there ANY redeeming quality to this man, and is there ANY reason that there should not be a concerted effort to throw his worthless butt out of office. And please, don't tell me he's been a good friend to gun owners in the past. What has he done for us lately?
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