Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Discussions about relevant bills filed and their status.

Moderator: Charles L. Cotton


Topic author
GEM-Texas
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:04 pm
Location: San Antonio

Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby GEM-Texas » Sun May 29, 2011 1:59 pm

A question. Congrats on the parking lot win. But I reading around the internet (obviously the source of all truth! :lol: ) that employers can rewrite their handbooks to make not having a gun in the car a condition of employment.

So is this legal under the legislation? If so, it would make the bill not applicable to many firms who have such rules or add them.

Hope not and sorry to be a touch confused. Have to stop reading the Internets and using the Google.

User avatar

Paragrouper
Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:47 pm
Location: Shady Shores, TX

Re: Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby Paragrouper » Sun May 29, 2011 2:56 pm

GEM-Texas wrote:A question. Congrats on the parking lot win. But I reading around the internet (obviously the source of all truth! :lol: ) that employers can rewrite their handbooks to make not having a gun in the car a condition of employment.

So is this legal under the legislation? If so, it would make the bill not applicable to many firms who have such rules or add them.

Hope not and sorry to be a touch confused. Have to stop reading the Internets and using the Google.


This statement was in an email I received from TSRA (Linda Tripp): "A word of caution! Watch for your employer to change their employee manual, especially those companies which exercised the strongest opposition."

I am not certain what can be done. The law passed seems pretty clear to me. My employer's employee handbook already prohibits guns (and a number of other items) in our personal vehicles.
DCC
"Beware the fury of of the patient man." ~John Dryden


BrianSW99
Senior Member
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:51 am

Re: Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby BrianSW99 » Sun May 29, 2011 3:19 pm

Paragrouper wrote:\

This statement was in an email I received from TSRA (Linda Tripp): "A word of caution! Watch for your employer to change their employee manual, especially those companies which exercised the strongest opposition."


I also noticed this statement in the email. I wasn't quite sure what she meant by that. I thought the parking lot bill was supposed to override the employee manual.

Brian


Right2Carry
Banned
Posts: 1447
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:29 pm
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth Area

Re: Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby Right2Carry » Sun May 29, 2011 3:50 pm

I don't see how changing the wording in the handbook will circumvent the law. If the law is clear that employees have a right to keep a firearm in their locked private vehicle then I don't see how rewriting the employee manual is going to change that.

I thought the new law once signed would prevent exactly this kind of action from employers.
“Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, an American Soldier doesn't have that problem". — President Ronald Reagan, 1985

User avatar

flintknapper
Senior Member
Posts: 4849
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:40 pm
Location: Deep East Texas

Re: Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby flintknapper » Sun May 29, 2011 4:14 pm

Right2Carry wrote:I don't see how changing the wording in the handbook will circumvent the law. If the law is clear that employees have a right to keep a firearm in their locked private vehicle then I don't see how rewriting the employee manual is going to change that.

I thought the new law once signed would prevent exactly this kind of action from employers.


It wouldn't.

BUT.....your employer (as a condition of employment) can require that they be able to inspect/search your vehicle at any time. So......you know what that leads to, right?

You could not be fired for lawfully having a weapon in your locked vehicle BUT....Texas is a "Hire at Will" State and an employer may fire you for nearly any reason (with a few exceptions).

You will simply receive your pink slip (along with some bogus reason for your firing) once it is discovered you are "carrying" a weapon in your vehicle.
Spartans ask not how many, but where!


RPB
Banned
Posts: 8697
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby RPB » Sun May 29, 2011 4:30 pm

flintknapper wrote:
Right2Carry wrote:I don't see how changing the wording in the handbook will circumvent the law. If the law is clear that employees have a right to keep a firearm in their locked private vehicle then I don't see how rewriting the employee manual is going to change that.

I thought the new law once signed would prevent exactly this kind of action from employers.


It wouldn't.

BUT.....your employer (as a condition of employment) can require that they be able to inspect/search your vehicle at any time. So......you know what that leads to, right?

You could not be fired for lawfully having a weapon in your locked vehicle BUT....Texas is a "Hire at Will" State and an employer may fire you for nearly any reason (with a few exceptions).

You will simply receive your pink slip (along with some bogus reason for your firing) once it is discovered you are "carrying" a weapon in your vehicle.

or "no reason at all" if I recall correctly.

Some employers may fire someone for socks they don't like, hair parted wrong, whatever "reason" but some say it's safer not to give a reason at all.
I'm no lawyer

"Never show your hole card" "Always have something in reserve"

User avatar

flintknapper
Senior Member
Posts: 4849
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:40 pm
Location: Deep East Texas

Re: Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby flintknapper » Sun May 29, 2011 4:49 pm

RPB wrote:
flintknapper wrote:
Right2Carry wrote:I don't see how changing the wording in the handbook will circumvent the law. If the law is clear that employees have a right to keep a firearm in their locked private vehicle then I don't see how rewriting the employee manual is going to change that.

I thought the new law once signed would prevent exactly this kind of action from employers.


It wouldn't.

BUT.....your employer (as a condition of employment) can require that they be able to inspect/search your vehicle at any time. So......you know what that leads to, right?

You could not be fired for lawfully having a weapon in your locked vehicle BUT....Texas is a "Hire at Will" State and an employer may fire you for nearly any reason (with a few exceptions).

You will simply receive your pink slip (along with some bogus reason for your firing) once it is discovered you are "carrying" a weapon in your vehicle.

or "no reason at all" if I recall correctly.

Some employers may fire someone for socks they don't like, hair parted wrong, whatever "reason" but some say it's safer not to give a reason at all.



That is correct, is it simply a "catch-all" for employers...since there is always a "reason".
Spartans ask not how many, but where!

User avatar

The Annoyed Man
Senior Member
Posts: 22858
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 pm
Location: North Richland Hills, Texas
Contact:

Re: Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby The Annoyed Man » Sun May 29, 2011 4:55 pm

flintknapper wrote:
RPB wrote:
flintknapper wrote:
Right2Carry wrote:I don't see how changing the wording in the handbook will circumvent the law. If the law is clear that employees have a right to keep a firearm in their locked private vehicle then I don't see how rewriting the employee manual is going to change that.

I thought the new law once signed would prevent exactly this kind of action from employers.


It wouldn't.

BUT.....your employer (as a condition of employment) can require that they be able to inspect/search your vehicle at any time. So......you know what that leads to, right?

You could not be fired for lawfully having a weapon in your locked vehicle BUT....Texas is a "Hire at Will" State and an employer may fire you for nearly any reason (with a few exceptions).

You will simply receive your pink slip (along with some bogus reason for your firing) once it is discovered you are "carrying" a weapon in your vehicle.

or "no reason at all" if I recall correctly.

Some employers may fire someone for socks they don't like, hair parted wrong, whatever "reason" but some say it's safer not to give a reason at all.

That is correct, is it simply a "catch-all" for employers...since there is always a "reason".

how has this played out in Oklahoma, where they've had a parking lot law on the books for a while now?
"Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself."—Hookalakah Meshobbab
"I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes."—The Annoyed Boy
"Id aegre et in omnibus semper."—Quod Homo Aegre

User avatar

WildBill
Senior Member
Posts: 16468
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby WildBill » Sun May 29, 2011 5:12 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:how has this played out in Oklahoma, where they've had a parking lot law on the books for a while now?
Excellent question. I haven't heard or read about any fallout from the new law.

I suspect most companies will ignore the law and will not change their policies or handbooks. This will lead to more discussions on the forum, similar to the topics on illegal 30.06 signs.

I found this about a court decision that upheld the Oklahoma law.
http://ehstoday.com/safety/ruling-guns-legal-lots-2761/
NRA Endowment Member


Right2Carry
Banned
Posts: 1447
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:29 pm
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth Area

Re: Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby Right2Carry » Sun May 29, 2011 5:25 pm

flintknapper wrote:
Right2Carry wrote:I don't see how changing the wording in the handbook will circumvent the law. If the law is clear that employees have a right to keep a firearm in their locked private vehicle then I don't see how rewriting the employee manual is going to change that.

I thought the new law once signed would prevent exactly this kind of action from employers.


It wouldn't.

BUT.....your employer (as a condition of employment) can require that they be able to inspect/search your vehicle at any time. So......you know what that leads to, right?

You could not be fired for lawfully having a weapon in your locked vehicle BUT....Texas is a "Hire at Will" State and an employer may fire you for nearly any reason (with a few exceptions).

You will simply receive your pink slip (along with some bogus reason for your firing) once it is discovered you are "carrying" a weapon in your vehicle.


Sounds like grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit!!!! My employer has that provision but I have never seen it used in the 9 years I have been with the company. Employers are not above the law and they had better tread lightly on this issue least they find themselves hauled into court for wrongful termination. I suspect this would be easy to prove especially when terminating an employee that followed a search of a vehicle.
“Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, an American Soldier doesn't have that problem". — President Ronald Reagan, 1985


Topic author
GEM-Texas
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:04 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby GEM-Texas » Sun May 29, 2011 5:27 pm

Great find but we are in the 5th Circuit. However, precedents count. The article seems to knock the socks off the private property ranters that we've seen here.

Can the TX AG speak to the issue as was done previously on other parking lot interpretations?

Also for faculty (harking back to college issues) - at least for tenured faculty (and those on the tenure track), firing at will isn't possible unless there is great moral or legal violations. This would not be such reason, it would seem.


Right2Carry
Banned
Posts: 1447
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:29 pm
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth Area

Re: Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby Right2Carry » Sun May 29, 2011 5:31 pm

WildBill wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:how has this played out in Oklahoma, where they've had a parking lot law on the books for a while now?
Excellent question. I haven't heard or read about any fallout from the new law.

I suspect most companies will ignore the law and will not change their policies or handbooks. This will lead to more discussions on the forum, similar to the topics on illegal 30.06 signs.

I found this about a court decision that upheld the Oklahoma law.
http://ehstoday.com/safety/ruling-guns-legal-lots-2761/


I found this quote in the article to be interesting. Could this be what TSRA was referring to?

In the wake of the appeals court ruling, Anelli says human resources and legal teams in states where these pro-gun laws have passed may need to rewrite employee handbooks to include firearms policies specifically crafted to reflect the reality that guns could be present in the parking lot.


http://ehstoday.com/safety/ruling-guns-legal-lots-2761/
“Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, an American Soldier doesn't have that problem". — President Ronald Reagan, 1985


Mike1951
Senior Member
Posts: 3532
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:06 am
Location: SE Texas

Re: Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby Mike1951 » Sun May 29, 2011 6:34 pm

Right2Carry wrote:
flintknapper wrote:
Right2Carry wrote:I don't see how changing the wording in the handbook will circumvent the law. If the law is clear that employees have a right to keep a firearm in their locked private vehicle then I don't see how rewriting the employee manual is going to change that.

I thought the new law once signed would prevent exactly this kind of action from employers.


It wouldn't.

BUT.....your employer (as a condition of employment) can require that they be able to inspect/search your vehicle at any time. So......you know what that leads to, right?

You could not be fired for lawfully having a weapon in your locked vehicle BUT....Texas is a "Hire at Will" State and an employer may fire you for nearly any reason (with a few exceptions).

You will simply receive your pink slip (along with some bogus reason for your firing) once it is discovered you are "carrying" a weapon in your vehicle.


Sounds like grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit!!!! My employer has that provision but I have never seen it used in the 9 years I have been with the company. Employers are not above the law and they had better tread lightly on this issue least they find themselves hauled into court for wrongful termination. I suspect this would be easy to prove especially when terminating an employee that followed a search of a vehicle.


All that is needed is a reasonable amount of time to pass after the search. If you're fired months or even weeks after the search, the employer could deny the reason for firing.

I caution everyone to resist being the 'trailblazer' on this subject at your job. Don't ask about the new law or how it will affect company policy.

No doubt, many employers will modify their policies to comply. Others will likely resist vehemently and will find ways of punishing employees they suspect or know are taking advantage of SB321. Don't mark yourself as one of 'them'.

Silence is still golden!
Mike
AF5MS
TSRA Life Member
NRA Benefactor Member


Right2Carry
Banned
Posts: 1447
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:29 pm
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth Area

Re: Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby Right2Carry » Sun May 29, 2011 6:39 pm

Mike1951 wrote:
Right2Carry wrote:
flintknapper wrote:
Right2Carry wrote:I don't see how changing the wording in the handbook will circumvent the law. If the law is clear that employees have a right to keep a firearm in their locked private vehicle then I don't see how rewriting the employee manual is going to change that.

I thought the new law once signed would prevent exactly this kind of action from employers.


It wouldn't.

BUT.....your employer (as a condition of employment) can require that they be able to inspect/search your vehicle at any time. So......you know what that leads to, right?

You could not be fired for lawfully having a weapon in your locked vehicle BUT....Texas is a "Hire at Will" State and an employer may fire you for nearly any reason (with a few exceptions).

You will simply receive your pink slip (along with some bogus reason for your firing) once it is discovered you are "carrying" a weapon in your vehicle.


Sounds like grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit!!!! My employer has that provision but I have never seen it used in the 9 years I have been with the company. Employers are not above the law and they had better tread lightly on this issue least they find themselves hauled into court for wrongful termination. I suspect this would be easy to prove especially when terminating an employee that followed a search of a vehicle.


All that is needed is a reasonable amount of time to pass after the search. If you're fired months or even weeks after the search, the employer could deny the reason for firing.

I caution everyone to resist being the 'trailblazer' on this subject at your job. Don't ask about the new law or how it will affect company policy.

No doubt, many employers will modify their policies to comply. Others will likely resist vehemently and will find ways of punishing employees they suspect or know are taking advantage of SB321. Don't mark yourself as one of 'them'.

Silence is still golden!


I agree on silence is golden. They can deny all they want, that is what we have courts for.
“Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, an American Soldier doesn't have that problem". — President Ronald Reagan, 1985

User avatar

WildBill
Senior Member
Posts: 16468
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Parking lots and employee handbooks?

Postby WildBill » Sun May 29, 2011 6:47 pm

GEM-Texas wrote:Great find but we are in the 5th Circuit. However, precedents count. The article seems to knock the socks off the private property ranters that we've seen here.

Can the TX AG speak to the issue as was done previously on other parking lot interpretations?

Also for faculty (harking back to college issues) - at least for tenured faculty (and those on the tenure track), firing at will isn't possible unless there is great moral or legal violations. This would not be such reason, it would seem.
I believe that the AG can speak only to the criminal aspects of the law. Suing for wrongful termination would be a civil matter. However, IANAL so I could be wrong.
NRA Endowment Member


Return to “2011 Texas Legislative Session”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest