Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

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Abraham
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby Abraham » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:05 am

Am I the only one to think if one is discovered by an LE officer (unlikely, but certainly not impossible) with a sub2K (or something similar) in a 30.06 posted location one might be taking "The Ride"?

Or, is everyone (but me...) convinced there's absolutely, positively, no possibility of a problem if one is discovered with a firearm in a 30.06 location, because technically speaking you're legal, cuz ya know, it's not a handgun, it's a rifle?

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ScottDLS
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby ScottDLS » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:13 am

Abraham wrote:Am I the only one to think if one is discovered by an LE officer (unlikely, but certainly not impossible) with a sub2K (or something similar) in a 30.06 posted location one might be taking "The Ride"?

Or, is everyone (but me...) convinced there's absolutely, positively, no possibility of a problem if one is discovered with a firearm in a 30.06 location, because technically speaking you're legal, cuz ya know, it's not a handgun, it's a rifle?


Or maybe because the 30.06 is a class C misdemeanor (with a few exceptions) most "rides" will therefore not happen. Or maybe you'll take the "ride" for attempted murder for NOT violating 30.06 by carrying a concealed rifle, because the LEO is having a bad day...Then the DA will get a grand jury to indict you "because you are a ham sandwich", then you'll have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on bail, lawyers, trial costs, and missed work...And you still might get convicted...

I mean remember, the legislature has not granted you the right to carry a long gun by establishing a LTCR...never mind that there is no law against it, you can only do what you are specifically "allowed", right...?

:biggrinjester:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


Abraham
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby Abraham » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:26 am

ScottDLS,

It's too early to start drinking!

And, I'm not a "ham" sandwich, I'm a roast beef sandwich with lots of onions.

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby The Annoyed Man » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:54 am

I have a cheap nylon laptop case, but I use it to carry guitar pedals and power sources, guitar cables, stuff like that..... Granted, the 511 bag looks more "tactical", but that's primarily the color. It's also available in black and in gray. My son has the black one, and it just looks like any other cordura nylon messenger bag. Personally, the color of mine doesn't bother me. Another thing that will fit in it, which I don't own yet, is a ballistic plate. That's coming soon.
"Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself."—Hookalakah Meshobbab
"I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes."—The Annoyed Boy
"Id aegre et in omnibus semper."—Quod Homo Aegre

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby The Annoyed Man » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:37 am

Abraham wrote:Am I the only one to think if one is discovered by an LE officer (unlikely, but certainly not impossible) with a sub2K (or something similar) in a 30.06 posted location one might be taking "The Ride"?

Or, is everyone (but me...) convinced there's absolutely, positively, no possibility of a problem if one is discovered with a firearm in a 30.06 location, because technically speaking you're legal, cuz ya know, it's not a handgun, it's a rifle?

I hear where you're coming from, but how would I be discovered? It's just a briefcase/messenger bag. in any place I'm likely to be found (church, coffee shops, etc.), there's probably a half dozen almost like it nearby. The day before yesterday, when I went to visit my friend in the Emergency Room, I didn't bring the bag in because I know that I'd be checking in at a desk with armed security to get my pass, and they might want to search the bag. But that was a situation where I made the deliberate calculation that there was a substantial risk of the bag being searched.

But, and I'm not saying this ever happened, I might have easily carried a concealed pistol into the same hospital on both occasions when my grandkids were being born.....because there was no kabuki dance with security personnel involved to get into that part of the hospital. And if I had done such a thing, I would not have been discovered anyway, because I was just another new grandfather, an old guy who looks vaguely like Santa, with twinkling eyes and a kindly demeanor, visiting his son and daughter in law and new grandchild in the hospital.......not doing anything or dressed in such a way as to draw attention to himself. So again, had such a thing actually happened, there would have been no reason to stop and frisk me.....had I ever done such a thing......

But if it is just a regular business, without having to be checked in by armed security in order to enter, I'd be perfectly comfortable carrying the messenger bag past a 30.06 sign. Why? Because I'm going to be there on business.....not personal shopping reasons. I don't give my money to merchants who don't want me to carry. I won't go in there. But if I am acting in the name of my business, as one businessman doing business with another, and I need to go in, I'll enter.......with the messenger bag. And after all, why not? It will also contain my laptop, notebook, an iPad, various power cords and USB devices, etc., etc. It is completely possible to open the bag and retrieve objects without giving away the fact that there is a 9mm folded carbine in one of the pockets, which is closed by means of a Velcro strap. That way, I completely respect the property-owner's right to keep licensed handgun carry out of their place, without surrendering my own safety to their kabuki, and without violating the law.

My local coffee shop is posted 07, and I carry concealed in there all the time. They are not really "anti-gun" (I have a story to tell about what happened to me once in there), they just don't want open carry in there. (There is a larger reason for that, having little or nothing to do with the owner's personal view of the 2nd Amendment. He's a Christian, and he has deliberately built a business where other Christians will come into contact with people of other faith, or no faith, and begin to build the kinds of relationships that can eventually lead to non-Christians coming into relationship with Jesus. Many of those people, by virtue of their non-believing lifestyles, are also anti-gun, and he doesn't want to make them uncomfortable with hanging out there. He gets more than enough business from people who probably don't care one way or the other for it to not be a financial consideration. But his interest in spreading the gospel is, in very real terms, a "larger concern" than whether or not someone will be indignant because they can't open carry in his coffee shop.) Anyway, the place is often frequented by local LEOs (the coffee is really good). Why would one of them want to search me? I'm just another customer, and they're there to get coffee, just like I am. And within 25 ft of me, there must be 8 or 10 others with messenger bags or briefcases. It's a hang out kind of place, and like all the other customers, I'm just sitting there, minding my own business, talking with a friend, reading a book, or surfing the web or something. But even if it were posted 06 (which would keep me out of it anyway), why would I worry about my messenger bag being searched? The only thing that has changed is the signage out front. What's happening inside is still the same.........and I'm still not breaking the law.....
"Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself."—Hookalakah Meshobbab
"I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes."—The Annoyed Boy
"Id aegre et in omnibus semper."—Quod Homo Aegre

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Jusme
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby Jusme » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:03 pm

I agree with TAM, suddenly being searched by the police is not a common occurrence. nearly everyone these days carries backpacks, laptop cases, etc.
If there is nothing suspicious about a person, even in a place posted 30.06, and they are doing nothing to draw undue attention to themselves, I wouldn't think it would be a concern. As far as "taking the ride" they would have to find a legitimate charge for doing so. Since 30.06 only applies to the licensed carry of handguns, a rifle does not violate that statute. The police can't arrest someone because they are "angry" there has to be a violation that they can document.

I'm sure there are several people who carry a similar firearm to TAM's who walk the streets everyday, go into places posted 30.06, and mind their own business, and I have never heard of anyone being arrested for doing so. JMHO.
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


Abraham
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby Abraham » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:22 pm

TAM,

I posted: "Am I the only one to think if one is discovered by a LE officer (unlikely, but certainly not impossible) with a sub2K (or something similar) in a 30.06 posted location one might be taking "The Ride"?"

"Unlikely, but certainly not impossible" is of course what I hoped would also be noticed.

Murphy's law has a way of making events that seem impossible or close to it, possible...

That being said, I'm interested in knowing the opinions/possible outcome of what is likely to transpire "if" one is discovered by LE to be concealed carrying a Sub2k or similar rifle in a 30.06 posted location?

Nothing?

Have the Sub2K seized with a giant hassle getting it returned?

Be escorted out of the building with no further ramification.

Take the ride?

Or...?

Why do I ask?

Because I'm considering doing what you and some others are doing if I buy a Sub2k i.e., taking it with me in a computer bag/briefcase into 30.06 locations - but only if I know in advance what will happen (chances are remote, but again, not impossible) if I'm discovered with a firearm in a 30.06 posted location. (yes, a Sukb2000 is not a handgun, but is a firearm)

The ill informed or overzealous LE officer may not take my possession of a concealed firearm in a 30.06 location very kindly or act within the law. He doesn't know me. I could be a lone nut case out to do harm...

With a lawyer, much expense and time, I'll probably be exonerated, but is that something I want to face if things go south?

You think the chance of being discovered concealed carrying a rifle in a 30.06 location is very close to nil, but I have to think you aren't 100% certain absolutely nothing negative would happen to you if the long arm of the law were to discover Mr. Harmless Grandpa is packing heat...yes, it's a rifle, not a handgun, but it may also create major hassle if discovered.

Jusme,

Just as 30.06 locations are being posted with signs at inappropriate governmental locations while these governmental employees simultaneously thumb their nose at our AG, so too can there be overzealous LE officers taking inappropriate measures.

One of the major considerations I see with you and TAM is the thinking that says no LE officer would have reason to check your bag. OK, why would it be a concern if they did? Why bother considering if it's of no consequence?

Because the trouble you can't get in, you're concealed carrying a rifle, not a handgun, may just occur...

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nightmare69
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby nightmare69 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:42 pm

From what I can find there isn't any law banning concealing longgun as long as it's not an SBR. So have fun playing James Bond.
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nightmare69
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby nightmare69 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:57 pm

Also it's much easier to just become a reserve LEO and then 06/07 signs won't apply to you. I wouldn't go as far as carrying a concealed rifle in a briefcase unless I was Jason Bourne. It's comical really.
2/26-Mailed paper app and packet.
5/20-Plastic in hand.
83 days mailbox to mailbox.

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Jusme
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby Jusme » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:04 pm

Abraham wrote:TAM,

I posted: "Am I the only one to think if one is discovered by a LE officer (unlikely, but certainly not impossible) with a sub2K (or something similar) in a 30.06 posted location one might be taking "The Ride"?"

"Unlikely, but certainly not impossible" is of course what I hoped would also be noticed.

Murphy's law has a way of making events that seem impossible or close to it, possible...

That being said, I'm interested in knowing the opinions/possible outcome of what is likely to transpire "if" one is discovered by LE to be concealed carrying a Sub2k or similar rifle in a 30.06 posted location?

Nothing?

Have the Sub2K seized with a giant hassle getting it returned?

Be escorted out of the building with no further ramification.

Take the ride?

Or...?

Why do I ask?

Because I'm considering doing what you and some others are doing if I buy a Sub2k i.e., taking it with me in a computer bag/briefcase into 30.06 locations - but only if I know in advance what will happen (chances are remote, but again, not impossible) if I'm discovered with a firearm in a 30.06 posted location. (yes, a Sukb2000 is not a handgun, but is a firearm)




The ill informed or overzealous LE officer may not take my possession of a concealed firearm in a 30.06 location very kindly or act within the law. He doesn't know me. I could be a lone nut case out to do harm...

With a lawyer, much expense and time, I'll probably be exonerated, but is that something I want to face if things go south?

You think the chance of being discovered concealed carrying a rifle in a 30.06 location is very close to nil, but I have to think you aren't 100% certain absolutely nothing negative would happen to you if the long arm of the law were to discover Mr. Harmless Grandpa is packing heat...yes, it's a rifle, not a handgun, but it may also create major hassle if discovered.

Jusme,

Just as 30.06 locations are being posted with signs at inappropriate governmental locations while these governmental employees simultaneously thumb their nose at our AG, so too can there be overzealous LE officers taking inappropriate measures.

One of the major considerations I see with you and TAM is the thinking that says no LE officer would have reason to check your bag. OK, why would it be a concern if they did? Why bother considering if it's of no consequence?

Because the trouble you can't get in, you're concealed carrying a rifle, not a handgun, may just occur...



You are correct Abraham, there are no 100% guarantees in life. My responses are based, mainly, on my experiences as a LEO. I realize, because I had the misfortune to work with a few, that not all LEO, are fully versed on all of the laws, and have at times attempted to misapply laws when it was not applicable. I also recognize that there are those in uniform who believe that they have the ultimate power when it comes to search and seizure statutes, but, those are a possibility anywhere. Just like the story posted by a member regarding a LEO disarming him at a liquor store because he "thought" it was against the law.

My point is that the chances of being searched, having a false charge leveled against you, and being arrested, because of a concealed rifle, are no more likely than it would be if you were "discovered" carrying a handgun in a non-prohibited location, and facing the same plight.JMHO
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


Abraham
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby Abraham » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:04 pm

nightmare69,

Do you know why an SBR is banned in a 30.06 location?

TAM & Jusme,

What might be the consequences if an armed security guard at a 30.06 location discovers you're packing a rifle in a 30.06 posted location? Think he'll be well schooled in Texas LTC law?

Yes, I'm trying to think of all the possible hurdles that I might have to leap if I decide to go with a Sub2k in 30.06 locations, and if I do, I'll let you know, and from then on we can all introduce ourselves as: Bond, James Bond!


rotor
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby rotor » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:12 pm

Abraham wrote:TAM,

I posted: "Am I the only one to think if one is discovered by a LE officer (unlikely, but certainly not impossible) with a sub2K (or something similar) in a 30.06 posted location one might be taking "The Ride"?"

"Unlikely, but certainly not impossible" is of course what I hoped would also be noticed.

Murphy's law has a way of making events that seem impossible or close to it, possible...

That being said, I'm interested in knowing the opinions/possible outcome of what is likely to transpire "if" one is discovered by LE to be concealed carrying a Sub2k or similar rifle in a 30.06 posted location?

Nothing?

Have the Sub2K seized with a giant hassle getting it returned?

Be escorted out of the building with no further ramification.

Take the ride?

Or...?

Why do I ask?

Because I'm considering doing what you and some others are doing if I buy a Sub2k i.e., taking it with me in a computer bag/briefcase into 30.06 locations - but only if I know in advance what will happen (chances are remote, but again, not impossible) if I'm discovered with a firearm in a 30.06 posted location. (yes, a Sukb2000 is not a handgun, but is a firearm)

The ill informed or overzealous LE officer may not take my possession of a concealed firearm in a 30.06 location very kindly or act within the law. He doesn't know me. I could be a lone nut case out to do harm...

With a lawyer, much expense and time, I'll probably be exonerated, but is that something I want to face if things go south?

You think the chance of being discovered concealed carrying a rifle in a 30.06 location is very close to nil, but I have to think you aren't 100% certain absolutely nothing negative would happen to you if the long arm of the law were to discover Mr. Harmless Grandpa is packing heat...yes, it's a rifle, not a handgun, but it may also create major hassle if discovered.

Jusme,

Just as 30.06 locations are being posted with signs at inappropriate governmental locations while these governmental employees simultaneously thumb their nose at our AG, so too can there be overzealous LE officers taking inappropriate measures.

One of the major considerations I see with you and TAM is the thinking that says no LE officer would have reason to check your bag. OK, why would it be a concern if they did? Why bother considering if it's of no consequence?

Because the trouble you can't get in, you're concealed carrying a rifle, not a handgun, may just occur...


Since 30.06 only covers concealed handguns carried by LTC holders (as other laws cover non-holders) and no license is required to carry a rifle (that I know of) what law would be broken by carrying a concealed rifle? Now if the sign said no firearms than trespass laws would apply. Not to say that a LEO might not know the law. To me the question would be if there was a handgun with a line through it sign (gunbuster) would that apply to a concealed rifle?


Abraham
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby Abraham » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:16 pm

Thinking about the "rifle/30.06 loophole" I also wonder what would happen if you had to defend yourself against a criminal/terrorist say in a hospital.

If you have to shoot in self defense are you going to be prosecuted for using a firearm in a 30.06 location?
You used a rifle, right, I get it, but they posted 30.06 to keep firearms at bay. Now, I can see some overzealous anti-gun prosecutor going for the jugular.

Unlikely?

Hhhhmmmmm, maybe or not...


Abraham
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby Abraham » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:19 pm

rotor,

"Now if the sign said no firearms than trespass laws would apply."

Are you sure?

I'm thinking such signs can't be enforced by law, but it's an interesting point.

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ScottDLS
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Re: Sub2k Sub2000 folding concealed rifle

Postby ScottDLS » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:20 pm

Abraham wrote:ScottDLS,

It's too early to start drinking!

And, I'm not a "ham" sandwich, I'm a roast beef sandwich with lots of onions.


Ha ha...it's never too early to start drinking unless you're driving or carrying... :biggrinjester:

I forgot who the prosecutor was who claimed he could get a grand jury to indict a "ham sandwich". Maybe it was a Manhattan DA... :smilelol5:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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