2013 Knife Rights Bills

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kf5nd
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby kf5nd » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:54 pm

My letter to Vice-Chair Carter

I also sent this letter to Chairman Herrero of the Criminal Jurisprudence Committee.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Vice-Chair Carter,

Just this weekend I began blogging about Rep. Harold Dutton's (D) HB936, a bill to decriminalize switchblade knives. As of today, I can prove that at least 788 people are following this topic.

Vice-Chair Carter, the interest in this bill is EXTREME, especially given that it has just been filed and no actions have taken place yet.

As you know, the Second Amendment to the US Constitution does not only apply to guns; it refers to "arms". That would include knives.

We have had many onerous restrictions placed on the use of knives in Texas law. As a CHL holder, I can carry a gun even into the State Capitol Building, but I cannot carry certain kinds of knives. That makes no sense to me. Reforms are badly needed.

I urge you to place HB936 on the schedule as soon as possible for the House Criminal Jurisprudence Committee.

Thank you very much.


Sincerely,
PW
Sincerely,
Peter in Houston


Richard_B
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby Richard_B » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:25 pm

I don't really understand the focus on switchblade knives alone. I realize that they are "prohibited items" which are generally illegal to purchase or possess in Texas, but there are simply so many knife restrictions that it is absurd (omitting, for the moment, the San Antonio situation).

The P.C. basically outlaws most everything, leaving a few provisions to squeak through.

"(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.
(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument."

Switchblades and gravity knives are dealt with a little below this.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm

As noted earlier, the legislature did not define a Bowie knife, but the courts have stepped in to define, after the fact, what constitutes a Bowie knife, a most questionable practice outside the normal rules of statutory construction.

Item (7) acts as a catchall provision which, effectively can ban any and all edged weapons.

I was at the UTSA Institute of Texan Culture this past weekend. There was a display showing the contributions of persons of Scottish descent to Texas (roughly 3/4 of the defenders of the Alamo were of Scottish ancestry and two were Scottish born) which included traditional Scottish clothing, kilt and so on, including a Sgian-dubh or Scottish dagger which is traditionally rather small and worn in the sock sort of like a boot knife. Too bad it is an illegal knife. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sgian-dubh

It is generally accepted that there is no decent documentation of what the knife Jim Bowie carried at the defense of the Alamo, but the legislature saw to ban it by name anyway, even though no effort at all was made to define it. Presumably, a Bowie knife of any size, no matter how small would be an illegal knife. I'm not sure if there is a court case putting a limit on just how small the knife has to be before it is no longer considered a Bowie knife.

Knife rights are part and parcel of the right to keep and bear arms, even though we often focus more on firearms.

If someone has information about the focus of the bill on switchblades, it would be interesting to hear the background.


SherwoodForest
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby SherwoodForest » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:10 pm

The intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly predicate - connotates the CRIMINAL intent of a 46.02(a) offense.

"illegal knives" are still weapons of arms that the Texas Legislature only has power , by law, to REGULATE the wearing of......NOT PROHIBIT the wearing of.....let alone declare knives "illegal" .

" To regulate " is to ESTABLISH STANDARDS FOR ( NOT prohibit ) "the wearing of arms " .

A woman on a college campus with a switchblade knife in her hand wouldn't be as likely to have to resort to " whistle violence ", let alone "pop off a round " as Mr. Salazar contends.

There's nothing that compares to the readily identifiable sound of a switchblade popping out as if to ask a stalker..... " Do you feel lucky today ? "

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ELB
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby ELB » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:37 pm

TxLobo wrote: ....

*Edit.. Ok, I was goofing around and did a search for Texas Criminal Reports vol. 80 and found it scanned into Google books. This is page 648 of that Book.
...


TxLobo, thank you very much! That is very interesting, I am going to replicate your search and see what I can come up with.

Something very interesting in that image: it mentions "Court of the County of Guadalupe" at the bottom -- that is the county I live in. What a coincidence. May have to journey to the Courthouse. ;-)
USAF 1982-2005
____________
The Most Interesting Texan in the World. :txflag:


Richard_B
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby Richard_B » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:52 pm

SherwoodForest wrote:The intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly predicate - connotates the CRIMINAL intent of a 46.02(a) offense.

"illegal knives" are still weapons of arms that the Texas Legislature only has power , by law, to REGULATE the wearing of......NOT PROHIBIT the wearing of.....let alone declare knives "illegal" .

" To regulate " is to ESTABLISH STANDARDS FOR ( NOT prohibit ) "the wearing of arms " .

A woman on a college campus with a switchblade knife in her hand wouldn't be as likely to have to resort to " whistle violence ", let alone "pop off a round " as Mr. Salazar contends.

There's nothing that compares to the readily identifiable sound of a switchblade popping out as if to ask a stalker..... " Do you feel lucky today ? "


Interestingly, the word "regulate" at the time of the drafting of the U.S. Constitution, as used in the Commerce Clause, meant regularized, as in standardize so that there would not be multiple inconsistent provisions affecting interstate commerce, and for the purpose of promoting or encouraging, not the power to prohibit as has frequently been incorrectly held by courts. Can you imagine if the word "regulate" included the power to prohibit interstate commerce?

Interestingly, there is an Illinois State Court which has held that the state does not have the power to (arbitrarily) prohibit the carrying (concealed carry) of hand guns. If what I read was correct, the court may have delayed issuing orders for a time to provide the legislature an opportunity to act. I wonder what the ramifications of that might be on Texas' absolute prohibition of Bowie knives etc.

Cheers


Douva
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby Douva » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:30 pm

83(R) HB 1299
Relating to municipal regulation of electric stun guns, knives, and personal defense sprays.
2/25/2013 H Referred to Urban Affairs
View all actions

---------------------------------------------

The House Urban Affairs committee is chaired by Harold Dutton, who wrote the switchblade bill. Rep. Dutton is an "F"-rated Democrat, so I have no prediction as to how this will play out. Here are the members of the Urban Affairs committee:

Rep. Harold V. Dutton, Jr. (D-Houston, rated "F" by TSRA)
Rep. Carol Alvarado (D-Houston, rated "F" by TSRA)
Rep. Rafael Anchia (D-Dallas, rated "C" by TSRA)
Rep. Gary Elkins (R-Houston, rated "A" by TSRA)
Rep. Jeff Leach (R-Plano, rated "AQ" by TSRA)
Rep. Justin Rodriguez (D-San Antonio, rated "?" by TSRA)
Rep. Scott Sanford (R-McKinney, rated "AQ" by TSRA)

---------------------------------------------

EDITED TO ADD: My suggestion for approaching the "C"- and "F"-rated members of the committee is to steer clear of Second Amendment arguments (which aren't likely to sway staunch gun control advocates) and focus instead on the argument that municipal regulations on knives and other self-defense weapons create an unnavigable patchwork of laws that unfairly penalize citizens who never intended to commit a crime.
Last edited by Douva on Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Topic author
kf5nd
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby kf5nd » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:40 pm

Elkins is my Rep, I'm emailing him now.
Sincerely,
Peter in Houston


Topic author
kf5nd
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby kf5nd » Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:51 am

I was contacted by the Associated Press yesterday because of texaskniferights.blogspot.com This has become a hot issue. Please continue the commentary on this thread, I rely on it to bolster my own knowledge.
Sincerely,
Peter in Houston


K.Mooneyham
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby K.Mooneyham » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:25 pm

kf5nd wrote:I was contacted by the Associated Press yesterday because of texaskniferights.blogspot.com This has become a hot issue. Please continue the commentary on this thread, I rely on it to bolster my own knowledge.


Please, I beg of you, be VERY careful what you say to the Associated Press. They are EXTREMELY liberal-progressive in their ideology. They make it a point to put out enormous numbers of anti-2A and anti-self-defense stories...they virtually flood the internet with this stuff. Take a look and you will see what I mean. Fox News uses them, for instance, and if its an anti-firearms story, chances are it came from the AP. I cannot imagine they are any different where knives are concerned.


Douva
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby Douva » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:37 pm

K.Mooneyham wrote:
kf5nd wrote:I was contacted by the Associated Press yesterday because of texaskniferights.blogspot.com This has become a hot issue. Please continue the commentary on this thread, I rely on it to bolster my own knowledge.


Please, I beg of you, be VERY careful what you say to the Associated Press. They are EXTREMELY liberal-progressive in their ideology. They make it a point to put out enormous numbers of anti-2A and anti-self-defense stories...they virtually flood the internet with this stuff. Take a look and you will see what I mean. Fox News uses them, for instance, and if its an anti-firearms story, chances are it came from the AP. I cannot imagine they are any different where knives are concerned.


The AP definitely has its share of hacks, but keep in mind that it's an ASSOCIATION of newspapers and reporters, so the quality of the AP's reporting tends to run the gamut from very good to very bad.


K.Mooneyham
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby K.Mooneyham » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:26 pm

Douva wrote:
K.Mooneyham wrote:
kf5nd wrote:I was contacted by the Associated Press yesterday because of texaskniferights.blogspot.com This has become a hot issue. Please continue the commentary on this thread, I rely on it to bolster my own knowledge.


Please, I beg of you, be VERY careful what you say to the Associated Press. They are EXTREMELY liberal-progressive in their ideology. They make it a point to put out enormous numbers of anti-2A and anti-self-defense stories...they virtually flood the internet with this stuff. Take a look and you will see what I mean. Fox News uses them, for instance, and if its an anti-firearms story, chances are it came from the AP. I cannot imagine they are any different where knives are concerned.


The AP definitely has its share of hacks, but keep in mind that it's an ASSOCIATION of newspapers and reporters, so the quality of the AP's reporting tends to run the gamut from very good to very bad.


Believe what you wish, but I do not count the AP as any friend to the Second Amendment and those who believe in the right to self defense.


Douva
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby Douva » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:47 pm

K.Mooneyham wrote:
Douva wrote:
K.Mooneyham wrote:
kf5nd wrote:I was contacted by the Associated Press yesterday because of texaskniferights.blogspot.com This has become a hot issue. Please continue the commentary on this thread, I rely on it to bolster my own knowledge.


Please, I beg of you, be VERY careful what you say to the Associated Press. They are EXTREMELY liberal-progressive in their ideology. They make it a point to put out enormous numbers of anti-2A and anti-self-defense stories...they virtually flood the internet with this stuff. Take a look and you will see what I mean. Fox News uses them, for instance, and if its an anti-firearms story, chances are it came from the AP. I cannot imagine they are any different where knives are concerned.


The AP definitely has its share of hacks, but keep in mind that it's an ASSOCIATION of newspapers and reporters, so the quality of the AP's reporting tends to run the gamut from very good to very bad.


Believe what you wish, but I do not count the AP as any friend to the Second Amendment and those who believe in the right to self defense.


:banghead:

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Maxwell
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby Maxwell » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:43 pm

As long as I can stop worrying about getting busted with my locking pocket knive in San Antonio I'll be happy with anything!
I never let schooling interfere with my education. Mark Twain


Topic author
kf5nd
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby kf5nd » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:03 pm

Sir, I don't think there's anyway to hide a legislative issue like knife decriminalization, hope that that press will not hear of it, and just "sneak up and win". Those days are long past. My employer has somewhat the same problem; we're so paranoid about secrecy that we even manage to keep the product secret from our customers! That's not a winning strategy.

So few people out in the general public know about these bills that I would say even "bad" publicity could be good publicity. I mean - can it really get any worse than it is now for knife owners and users?

No one has proposed any bills restricting knife use (yet); the worst that can happen is no change. I say swing for the fences.


K.Mooneyham wrote:
kf5nd wrote:I was contacted by the Associated Press yesterday because of texaskniferights.blogspot.com This has become a hot issue. Please continue the commentary on this thread, I rely on it to bolster my own knowledge.


Please, I beg of you, be VERY careful what you say to the Associated Press. They are EXTREMELY liberal-progressive in their ideology. They make it a point to put out enormous numbers of anti-2A and anti-self-defense stories...they virtually flood the internet with this stuff. Take a look and you will see what I mean. Fox News uses them, for instance, and if its an anti-firearms story, chances are it came from the AP. I cannot imagine they are any different where knives are concerned.
Sincerely,
Peter in Houston


K.Mooneyham
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Re: 2013 Knife Rights Bills

Postby K.Mooneyham » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:31 pm

Douva, if you need proof, I can start a new thread tomorrow. I can call it "Anti-2A stories by the AP". I promise I will have no problems providing links to fill it up with. I'm NOT paranoid, I've just seen a LOT of anti-self-defense and anti-2A stories that came from the AP, and VERY, VERY few pro-2A, pro-self-defense stories from those folks.


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