HB48: No renewal class required

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Moderators: Charles L. Cotton, carlson1

Do you support HB48 that removes the requirement to take CHL renewal course?

I support HB48 and I am not a CHL Instructor
167
73%
I support HB48 and I am a CHL Instructor
14
6%
I oppose HB48 and I am not a CHL Instructor
37
16%
I oppose HB48 and I am a CHL Instructor
10
4%
 
Total votes: 228

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Charles L. Cotton
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HB48: No renewal class required

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:35 pm

Since the HB47 thread/poll is generating some lively discussion, let's see how folks feel about HB48. If HB48 passes, a CHL will not have to take a renewal course to renew their CHL. Currently, once you are on your 3rd or later renewal, you are only required to take a renewal course once every 10 years, although you still must renew the CHL every five years.

Do you support or oppose HB48?

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Jumping Frog
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Re: HB48: No renewal class required

Postby Jumping Frog » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:47 pm

There are many states that do not require renewal training, and I am not aware of any evidence or data showing it reduces public safety or creates additional unjustified shootings in those states. So dropping government-required renewal training is fine with me.

I have personally chosen to continue with periodic training for my own benefit, but there is a world of difference between personal efforts and government-mandated efforts.
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The_Busy_Mom
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Re: HB48: No renewal class required

Postby The_Busy_Mom » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:48 pm

Hmmmm....... That's one that I have to give some more thought to. If you go off the thought that CHL class is for education about the law (simplistic, I know), then you put a CHL license in the same category as a driver's license. You don't have to take a class to renew your driver's license, just get another picture and pay your fee when it expires. The argument is that you didn't have to take a class to get your driver license to begin with, so you wouldn't need a class to renew. The same cannot be (currently) said for CHL license. You have to have the class time to get the license, so I would say that some sort of renewal class would be needed. I would bet most of the people on this forum don't know about new laws that affect driver licenses (age restrictions being the big one that I can think of right off the top of my head). People who are responsible for conceal carrying a firearm should be up to speed on changing legislation. The most efficient way to do this is through a renewal class. I understand that ignorance of the law is no excuse. I'm just not really sure how I feel about someone carrying a firearm, basing their actions on information that might be 15 years old. Think about how much has changed since 1995/1996 when the program was enacted.

I'll vote after I see some different sides to this coin.

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Edited: Now that I typed out what I thought, I realize that the current 10 renewal requirement isn't much different than my point of 15 year old information. Critical thinking - it does a mind good.
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Re: HB48: No renewal class required

Postby RJGold » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:53 pm

Charles.

This may be a dumb question but I tried to google HB48 to look at the text and found a bill about redistribution of unused workforce development training funds.

Is the text for the bill you are referencing available?

Thank you.
Lo que no puede cambiar, tu que debe aguantar.
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Re: HB48: No renewal class required

Postby RottenApple » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:54 pm

I'm not a CHL instructor (yet), but I think this would be great. Perhaps an online test, just as a memory refresher, when completing your renewal app could be added. Then just renew, take the online refresher test, and be done with it.

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Re: HB48: No renewal class required

Postby RoyGBiv » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:01 pm

The_Busy_Mom wrote: People who are responsible for conceal carrying a firearm should be up to speed on changing legislation. The most efficient way to do this is through a renewal class.

I disagree...

To paraphrase...

People who are responsible for conceal carrying a firearm should be up to speed on changing legislation. The most efficient way to do this is by reading the laws. They are posted online in very convenient places and are easy to read. Please do not mandate time and expense to me just because it would make YOU* more comfortable to do it that way.

(* by YOU, I mean the royal YOU.. as in, anyone/everyone. I'm not picking on Busy_Mom, just disagreeing with the notion that EVERYONE needs yet another training class to keep current on CHL law)
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Re: HB48: No renewal class required

Postby Frankie » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:05 pm

I don't have to take a driving test every time I renew my DL. So why do I have to take a class to renew my CHL?
To me, it's about individual responsibility. Want to carry a gun? Know the law even if you have to do your own research (that is the point of this site.).
Anyone who says “they need to prove they can still qualify” again, individual responsibility. I know ammo is hard to come by these days but we still need to practice with our weapon.
1 million class hours will not lower anyone’s responsibility if they ever have to use their weapon to take someone’s life. It’s going to come down to justified or not justified as determined by the laws and the court.
One class to get your license the first time, after that, it's up to the individual to keep up with the law and qualified to use their preferred firearm. Just like a driver’s license.

Just my .02 and it's probably worth about 1/2 that.
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Purplehood
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Re: HB48: No renewal class required

Postby Purplehood » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:05 pm

I think that renewal "classes" should be an online review of current laws related to the CHL and an e-signature affirming that you have read them.
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RottenApple
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Re: HB48: No renewal class required

Postby RottenApple » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:06 pm

RJGold wrote:Charles.

This may be a dumb question but I tried to google HB48 to look at the text and found a bill about redistribution of unused workforce development training funds.

Is the text for the bill you are referencing available?

Thank you.


Here you go.

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RJGold
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Re: HB48: No renewal class required

Postby RJGold » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:11 pm

While I'm waiting I thought I'd give my view on carrying and training.

I am new to licensed concealed carry but I have been "carrying" for years. My dad gave me my first shotgun when I was 12 and my first rifle when I was 16. With each of those came instruction from him on where and when it was acceptable to carry those weapons and where and when it was acceptable to use them (at that time all geared around hunting).

Later in life my dad and I got in to shooting pistols for sport (started with black powder). I learned through those contacts he owned pistols for self and home defense.

When I bought pistols for myself, I talked with my dad at length about deadly force and where to go and find the laws.

Sprinkle in military training and practical application and that's how my mindset around when and where I carry and when and where I would use a weapon were formed.

The CHL course I took was good in terms of familiarizing me with the laws. That said, I have spent more time since I got out of the class trying to become familiar with them than I actually spent in the class (i.e. the class showed me where to look for the answer).

I think laws (especially around guns and carry rights) will be so volatile in the coming years that even if we had to renew yearly, we couldn't keep up with proposed changes from just a class.

I think a CHL license should take on a renewal requirement similar to that of a drivers license (i.e. as long as my status hasn't changed, renewal should be basically automatic (fee required, address changes, health or status changes that impact eligibility, etc. all need to be considered))*.

*edited - a slight case of OCD and an Engineering degree required that I go back and fully close my parenthesis. :banghead:
My two cents.
Last edited by RJGold on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lo que no puede cambiar, tu que debe aguantar.
Take Care.
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Keith B
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Re: HB48: No renewal class required

Postby Keith B » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:11 pm

I am an instructor and believe there are enough people out there that do not stay up to date with law changes and need to be updated and let know about them. I would not mind seeing some type of online test with a larger question pool and random questions being chosen from the pool; that would at least require them to study the laws.

As for shooting, there are a lot that come through that haven't shot in 5 years (last CHL proficiency). I think there still needs to be that portion. Some of our worst students on the range are the renewals. :banghead:
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Re: HB48: No renewal class required

Postby Jumping Frog » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:13 pm

Purplehood wrote:I think that renewal "classes" should be an online review of current laws related to the CHL and an e-signature affirming that you have read them.

That is what Ohio does. Attorney General publishes a "Concealed Carry Handbook". The CHL affirms under penalty of perjury that they have downloaded and reviewed the current pamphlet as part of the application.
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This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
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RJGold
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Re: HB48: No renewal class required

Postby RJGold » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:16 pm

RottenApple wrote:
RJGold wrote:Charles.

This may be a dumb question but I tried to google HB48 to look at the text and found a bill about redistribution of unused workforce development training funds.

Is the text for the bill you are referencing available?

Thank you.


Here you go.


Thank you!
Lo que no puede cambiar, tu que debe aguantar.
Take Care.
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texanjoker
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Re: HB48: No renewal class required

Postby texanjoker » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:19 pm

Keith B wrote:I am an instructor and believe there are enough people out there that do not stay up to date with law changes and need to be updated and let know about them. I would not mind seeing some type of online test with a larger question pool and random questions being chosen from the pool; that would at least require them to study the laws.

As for shooting, there are a lot that come through that haven't shot in 5 years (last CHL proficiency). I think there still needs to be that portion. Some of our worst students on the range are the renewals. :banghead:


I agree 100%. I see it at the yearly qual and can only imagine those that go 5 years.

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Re: HB48: No renewal class required

Postby RX8er » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:23 pm

I support the idea of no class for renewal. Where I think the bill falls down is somehow making sure that at each renewal, the CHL holder is up to speed on any changes to the law.
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