Texas Training schools

General training discussions and class reviews.

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Skiprr
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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby Skiprr » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:00 am

Bill wrote:Hoffner is having a Free Seminar this Sat at Pruetts Gun and Ammo along with 4 hour knife fighting afterwards, not free. Look at his site for more info

Ooh. Thanks for reminding me, Bill. But I think Hoffner will be at Pruett's (at the classroom a couple of doors to the right of Pruett's store, where they teach the classroom portion of CHL; I still miss the radio segment they used to do together) on the 19th 9:00 to noon, not this Saturday the 12th. Gives folks more time to plan. :smile: And free lectures like that one are a great opportunity for people to see if that particular instructor strikes a chord. I gotta get it on my calendar, and if any other Forum members are going, we should hook up. We could have lunch at the Subway next door and spend money at Pruett's.

I think you make another good point that's valuable for jrmy_1: Every instructor--and ergo every training school or program--is different. The best analogy I can draw is from "traditional" martial arts. Systems and styles developed essentially as spin-offs from a parent source because some innovative practitioner went a slightly different direction, formalized that particular system, and began training other instructors to teach it. Oyama's Kyokushin-do came from Funakoshi's Shotokan; Shukokai sprang directly from Shorin-ryu, and all (probably) developed from much older Chinese styles.

The upside is that, with research and experimentation, you have more slightly different systems to choose from to locate one that suits you best. In the above examples, Mas Oyama's system was Spartan-like in its approach; sorta brutal and favored physically powerful practitioners. Shukokai was more circular, with quicker movements, and less dependent upon explosive strength. I know this sounds like a pretty esoteric ramble, but there's a point...really. ;-)

The downside is that, while different systems have many, very basic similarities, they are not identical, and there is no standardized qualification that is accepted by all. This means if you train a few years in Shukokai and decide you want to give Kyokushin-do a try, you don't take your rank with you and step right into an advanced class. And that's pretty much the same with practical, armed self-defense instruction today. If you take a couple of two-day pistol courses from, say, Gabe Suarez, and want to take a course from John Farnam, you'll most likely need to start with Farnam's 2 1/2 day Beginning Pistol class. You haven't earned your "belt" from Farnam, and he and his instructors can't be certain you know all of the fundamentals and safe administrative handling the way they teach it.

I personally think trying different systems is a very good thing. It allows you to apply your own judgment about what is the best in each, and what you think might not be the best and can be discarded. Heck, no single approach is perfect, and certainly not perfect for you as an individual. But it can get pretty expensive to do "style-hopping."

Something I think you're doing correctly is researching the course progression and availability for each system. They do differ. Paul Howe, for example, has a small operation in terms of number of instructors, and he focuses first on the LEO and military clients. Last year around March, I contacted him because there were no civilian classes showing on his Website for the remainder of 2007 or even into 2008. He was booked solid with Law Enforcement, and couldn't--until late 2007--even schedule his next civilian class. But for combat strategy and tactics, his CSAT is hard to beat (that's why he stays booked up with non-civilian classes).

Some trainers--like Suarez and Farnam mentioned above--make regular visits to the greater Houston area and post schedules well in advance. While they also train LEO and military, often the classes are commingled and the civilian calendar is pretty stable. Hoffner teaches year-round at Top Gun and Impact Zone, and includes some hand-to-hand and edged weapons in the mix. Farnam, for example, really doesn't get into applied mechanics on non-firearm; it's discussed in lecture and occasional training scenario, but his focus is pistol, shotgun, and rifle.

Gordon Carroll teaches regularly at Impact Zone, and his focus his competition. I guess you could say he's our Taekwondo. And Matt Burkett holds courses periodically at KR Training for sport shooting. If I were really serious about IDPA or USPSA, I'd want to get in line to study with one of these guys. Oh, and KR Training offers NRA-certified classes and CHL; Suarez and Farnam, for example, do not.

That's about as non-definitive an answer as you'll ever get. :lol: But it's a mixed bag, and you may not find everything you want in one place. Keep an open, questioning mind no matter where you train. Take notes: not just what the instructors say, but your own observations and conclusions.

Farnam gets his students in the habit of referring to themselves as "independent operators." I think that's a good idea on several fronts. It conveys that you aren't sweeping the streets of your neighborhood with a recon team: you are your own backup. And it conveys that the only person responsible for your training and preparedness is you. If someone teaches the Rogers flashlight technique and it never seems to work for you, but you took to Harries the first time you tried it, maybe you should train Harries. In the end, you have to remove as much clutter as possible and have your own training be efficient, consistent, and with as few moving parts as possible. In a pressure situation, you don't want to stop and decide if you're going to use your flashlight with a Rogers, Harries, Good, Mulroy, or FBI technique.

Hey, in 20 years we may see "JRMY Tactics and Training," and you'll be running your own school. :cool:
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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby fm2 » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:17 pm

Good points, Skiprr.
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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby jrmy_1 » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:35 pm

I personally think trying different systems is a very good thing. It allows you to apply your own judgment about what is the best in each, and what you think might not be the best and can be discarded. Heck, no single approach is perfect, and certainly not perfect for you as an individual. But it can get pretty expensive to do "style-hopping."

Something I think you're doing correctly is researching the course progression and availability for each system. They do differ. Paul Howe, for example, has a small operation in terms of number of instructors, and he focuses first on the LEO and military clients. Last year around March, I contacted him because there were no civilian classes showing on his Website for the remainder of 2007 or even into 2008. He was booked solid with Law Enforcement, and couldn't--until late 2007--even schedule his next civilian class. But for combat strategy and tactics, his CSAT is hard to beat (that's why he stays booked up with non-civilian cla


Thanks Skiprr for the input. I guess you've kinda nailed it. Style hopping is expensive and time consuming. I don't want to take 5 tac. pistol 1 classes with 5 different instructors. This would take too long to gain any proficiency, not to mention a lot of money. I want to take entry through advanced with 1 instructor who fits my style and perspective and then perhaps move on to other instructors, e.g. styles, for a more rounded approach. The trouble is knowing what the instructor and style is prior to taking the course. That's what I'm researching and the only way I know how is to obtain first hand experiences. Thanks for all the assistance. It's invaluable!

-J


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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby G Garrett » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:01 pm

Please excuse the hi-jack but this looks like place to announce that I am scheduling John Farnam for later in the year. Intermediate/advanced handgun in north Houston area. Don't have a date as yet. Please give me a shout at holsterman@gmail.com if your interested.
Thanks,
Gregg
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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby Skiprr » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:24 am

The G-Man!

That's good news. It's been a while since John conducted a class in Houston, hasn't it?

And that reminds me about jrmy_1's point. One way to get a reasonable idea about instructors' methods and theories is to look for books they've written. Not all of 'em have, naturally, but Farnam is a good example. He has one on pistol, one on shotgun/rifle, one collection of gun and defense related mini-essays, and his wife, Vicki, has one on teaching women to shoot. And I may be short-changing him, 'cause he may have one or two more out there. Brian Hoffner has four different instructional DVDs you can buy. Gabe Suarez has several books out. Pual Howe has at least one book available, plus online essays (the book is not focused on pistol technique, but it will certainly give you an idea of Paul's viewpoints). James Yeager has at least one DVD available, "Fighting Pistol." Karl Rehn posts training tips and some videos on KR Training's Website. And in addition, many of the guys host email lists where they'll send up updates on classes, and training and instruction tips.

Taking advantage of these low-cost options is one way to get at least some idea about their philosophies and teaching styles before starting down the big-commitment road. :smile:
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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby G Garrett » Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:05 am

Yea, our venue went up in smoke last year.
Apparently, all tho the store is not yet built at Sportsman's Outlet the range is going to be available. The latest up-date says the plans are approved and the contractor has signed on. They are waiting for permits now.

:rules:
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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby Skiprr » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:29 pm

Any other Forum members planning to be at Hoffner's 9:00 a.m. seminar this Saturday at Pruett's Guns & Ammo in northwest Harris County? I know of two, but wondering about a show of hands so we might be able locate each other, and maybe have lunch after.
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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby Bill » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:52 am

Thanks for catching that Skiprr, I am a great source of misinformation, maybe its working 12h 7 day weeks things start to blur. I am planning on being there, but might have to work, we shall see. I will be the guy wearing the concealed glock, or the one missing his hair. I am 6'3" 260 and gorgeous
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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby cbr600 » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:23 pm

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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby jrmy_1 » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:33 pm

Skiprr wrote:Any other Forum members planning to be at Hoffner's 9:00 a.m. seminar this Saturday at Pruett's Guns & Ammo in northwest Harris County? I know of two, but wondering about a show of hands so we might be able locate each other, and maybe have lunch after.


I'm gonna try and make it. Hopefully I'll see you all there.

-J

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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby Skiprr » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:18 am

Well, I'm heading into work. I should have known I wouldn't have a Saturday morning free.

If I can get wrapped up before noon, I may swing by Pruett's anyway, just to see who might still be around.
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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby Sailor » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:38 am

Another highly successful Pistol II training session with Gordon Carrell was accomplished this past weekend for Collin County IDPA at Jacob's Plain Gun Club. The class was full and the instruction was exemplary as always. Collin County IDPA will be scheduling Gordon's Pistol III class for sometime in July. If you are an IDPA SS or USPSA B Class shooter his Pistol III is your ticket to improvement. :cool: :cool: Check out his website at http://www.glcshootingacademy.com

Cody


PS: Don't forget to get your applications in for the 2008 Texas State IDPA Championship real soon. http://www.ccidpa.org/sp_event/txs08_inf.html
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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby bubba1876 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:59 am

Can anybody share personal experiences with this company or any of the instructors?

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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby jeeperbryan » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:38 am

Do any of these training schools allow you to use a .22lr pistol? With the cost of the course plus ammo costs I don't think I can afford to do any of these courses. Even if only partially with a .22 and partially with a centerfire pistol would help.


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Re: Texas Training schools

Postby Bill » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:11 am

I would think Hoff would , and I know Gabe Suarez does
http://www.suarezinternational.com/tech.html
http://www.hoffners.com/hoffsked.htm
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