Jan 20 LTC Instructor class

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jmorris
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Jan 20 LTC Instructor class

Postby jmorris » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:06 am

Just finished the intro, on break.

Very large class, 98 attendees. I'd say the majority run from 30-50 years old, but quite a few outside that range, like me. Six or so women.

I know the question was brought up recently about do you have to wait until you receive your certificate before teaching a class. Answer is yes. Additional material will be sent along with the cert and you must have it in hand before teaching a class.

Along with handgun safety they will cover "use of restraint holsters and methods to insure secure carrying of opened carried hanndguns"

BTW, if you're here, I'm the guy in the cool hat. ;)

No, I won't be posting details, just general tidbits that I know have come up here.

Add, they called role. 12 no shows.
Last edited by jmorris on Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jay E Morris
Guardian Firearm Training, NRA Pistol, LTC
NRA Lifetime/Recuiter
Cibolo, TX


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Re: Jan 20 LTC Instructor class

Postby locke_n_load » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:11 am

How long was your wait from when you applied for the LTC instructor course to today?
"They that would give up Essential Liberty, for a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

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Re: Jan 20 LTC Instructor class

Postby jmorris » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:17 am

Sometime in June, can't remember exactly. Info isn't with me.
Jay E Morris
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Re: Jan 20 LTC Instructor class

Postby Scott B. » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:30 pm

What's the layout like?
Are you in an auditorium?
Are you staying in Georgetown (I'm leaning towards Round Rock for my May class)?
How are you handling lunch?
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Re: Jan 20 LTC Instructor class

Postby jmorris » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:31 pm

They said no pictures of the range, which I'm kinda thinking means the whole complex so I won't be posting anything unless I find out differently.

It is a very nice layout. Auditorium style setting, one continous arc of table with office chairs.

I'm staying in Georgetown. Closer I believe and only $70.

Today I'm eating out because I didn't get a chance to grab a sub last night. I will tonight.
Jay E Morris
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Cibolo, TX

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Re: Jan 20 LTC Instructor class

Postby jmorris » Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:09 pm

Oh, and there are no signs pointing the way. You have to watch for the small green CR240 sign, and the pavement lasts for just a few car lengths. I think they'd rather no one knew they were here.
Jay E Morris
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Cibolo, TX

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Re: Jan 20 LTC Instructor class

Postby jmorris » Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:31 pm

This forum has spoiled me. Evidently quite a few haven't updated themselves on changes since they got their CHL, maybe back to 95.

We just spent 15 minutes arguing, er, discussing 51% signs. 10 minutes on will you get busted for printing, er, accidental display if not in a holster.

Trooper did state, if you have a LTC you do not have to conceal weapon in vehicle.
Jay E Morris
Guardian Firearm Training, NRA Pistol, LTC
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Cibolo, TX

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Re: Jan 20 LTC Instructor class

Postby Keith B » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:15 pm

jmorris wrote:

Trooper did state, if you have a LTC you do not have to conceal weapon in vehicle.


If carried in a belt or shoulder holster on you. Otherwise should be concealed.
Keith
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Re: Jan 20 LTC Instructor class

Postby jmorris » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:10 pm

Yesterday, he said one the seat was fine. *This morning*, they came back and said "let us clarify that". Yesterday's comment was why I noted that. Today it's back to "in a holster on you".

Something they have said frequently is, your mileage may vary depending upon jurisdiction.

I didn't get a chance to write up my last observations for the day yesterday because of mini-crisis last night.

51% was explained but when someone asked about invalid posting it was, why do you want to take a chance? Just don't go in there. I mentioned checking the license in-house or on-line and filing a complaint.

Covering 06/07 signs the trooper said that even if it was not valid you know what the intent is so why would you walk past it? Another said that there was an individual *convicted* for carrying past a gun buster sign. He didn't give the details. Their view is don't get hung up on valid, just don't go past it. Poster can give you permission to carry past 06/07.

When they covered where you could not carry the slide was worded as:
Premises of a church, ...... (if effective notice is given per Penal Code chapter 30)

I don't think some people understood that meant that 30.06/30.07 signs had to be posted. A guy behind me said to those around him "so you still can't carry into a church" and no one around him disagreed. I went up to him during break and pointed out (i) and his response was, that wasn't there when I took the class in 2007. Ah, yes it was.

I think they need to point out (i) instead of the wording they have.

They suggested having each student sign the front of CHL-16, then make a copy of it. Then when they do something stupid and say "my instructor said...." you can point out that you provided a copy and that's what you taught from.

Which reminds me, they don't give out copies of CHL-16 any more. If you want to have one here you'll have to print/download and bring it. Also, all the handouts are three ring punched so you could bring a binder, 1/2" would do it.

School activity. If a school activity is happening anywhere on school property, that area is off-limits. Band practicing in the parking lot? Don't drive in there with your handgun. He also gave an example that if there was a school cross-county meet going on at a non-school location that was a no-go also.

If you're practicing the shooting portion the rules here are: If you want to do SA with your revolver you cannot cock until the threat is presented. Semi with manual safety you cannot switch it off safe until the threat is presented.

They use turning targets so the threat is presented when the target turns towards you.

Holsters and OC. In discussions with the AG the DPS view is that tactical (thigh, drop) are *not* legal holsters. They didn't outright say but it seem the DPS (AG) view is that it must attach directly to the *pants* belt. I emphasize pants because they also said that a western style rig would not be legal either. Unless you were able to thread it through your belt loops. Paddle holster on a belt, legal. Paddle holster over your waistband with no belt, not legal. Held by gravity, friction, manual or automatic retention. They will not state what any requirements for a holster outside of that.

That's what I've got at the moment. On to review, test, and range in the morning.

Oh, yes, I can take a picture of the building. You might want to look it up on maps with satellite view. It's 1000 acres with main building, driving course, range, and ammo bunker. FBI students are here now taking a driving course. Found a brochure about the Emergency Vehicle Operations Center and from the class listings it appears that civilians can take the courses. Basic tactical Driving Course anyone?
Jay E Morris
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Cibolo, TX

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Re: Jan 20 LTC Instructor class

Postby Scott B. » Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:36 pm

Really appreciate the write-up.

Question about the revolver single-action part, 'cannot cock until the threat is presented'. Meaning not until the auto target turns on the range?

Oh, one more. Have they mentioned anything about designating how your name will be printed on the certificate? I go by my middle name, always have, and if they print the first name nobody will know who that is :cool:

Thanks again,
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Re: Jan 20 LTC Instructor class

Postby jmorris » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:29 pm

Scott B. wrote:Really appreciate the write-up.

Question about the revolver single-action part, 'cannot cock until the threat is presented'. Meaning not until the auto target turns on the range?


That's right. You're at the ready, hammer down. Target turns, you raise your revolver. You can now either pull the hammer back for SA or fire DA.

They may not be using turning targets tomorrow. First it was yes, then no, then yes, then I don't know what.

Scott B. wrote:Oh, one more. Have they mentioned anything about designating how your name will be printed on the certificate? I go by my middle name, always have, and if they print the first name nobody will know who that is :cool:

Thanks again,


Regulatory Service Department handles all that. According to the troopers they do the class, administer the test, and run the proficiency test and turn everything over to RSD. That's who will send you the mail (or did) about your class. I'd contact them to see about name changes. They may have to go with what's on your DL though. Just speculation.
Jay E Morris
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Re: Jan 20 LTC Instructor class

Postby jmorris » Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:31 pm

Trooper Pittman* said it was OK to take pictures. This is the "Taj Majal"
Image

It's actually the Emergency Vehicle Operations Center where the folks that teach the driving classes are located but that's where the classrooms are. The Firearms Instructor's offices are at the range. What they referred to as their hut. They said the EVOC is the nicest building DPS has. Thursday they had FBI agents on site doing tactical driving classes.
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.8069792,-97.743555,1256m/data=!3m1!1e3

This afternoon started of with a review of the test. I'm not going to say anything about the review except if you can't pass after that....

Sixty questions, mix of true/false and multiple choice like the student exam. There are instructor specific questions like on scoring the target. You do the test using a scantron form. When you're done you hand in the booklet, take the scantron out to the desk in the lobby and hand it to the trooper. He runs it and gives you a pass/fail. They don't tell you the score. Except if you've ever used scantrons in teaching a class (as I have) you know the score prints near the top, right of the card and if you peek over the counter....

Funny thing was the one question I worried about was one that has been discussed here often. I answered it. Thought, now is that what *they* want or what I think it should be. Changed it and got it right. If it was discussed in class it was when my ear was acting up.

*Trooper Pittman has 38 years with DPS. I believe he said he's now a civilian employee but might of misheard him. Been dealing with an ear infection which has made hearing a little difficult at times, especially if the class gets noisy. Anyway, he was involved in writing and doing the first CHL training for troopers and instructors.
Jay E Morris
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Cibolo, TX

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Re: Jan 20 LTC Instructor class

Postby jmorris » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:49 pm

Range day.
First, a FYI. There are two convenience stores on 195 between I35 and the facility. A Shell and a Valero. Both are posted with valid 06/07 signs.
There were two relays. First at 7 a.m. and then at 9 a.m. I was on the 9 and didn't shoot till almost 10:30. I think there were a few people from the first relay that had to re-shoot at least once if not twice.
They did a roll call using the score cards at which time one picked up their cards, showed DL, and got checked off. You get a score card for pistol and one for revolver.
Moved to they target area where we put our towel on top of our blue barrel.
Image
There's usually a plug missing from the barrels and if you don't cover the top of the barrel with the towel you could lose rounds or magazine inside. So be sure to take a towel with you. You lay the revolver to the left with the cylinder open, ammo next to it, pistol on the right, slide back, magazine below it, ammo next to it. The instructors will walk the line checking that the ammo is approved and they will do a function check on both revolver and pistol. One thing they'll look for is revolver push off. They will cock the hammer and attempt to push it forward. If they can do so the gun fails. There was one weapon that failed.
Oh, and I did say magazine, not magazines. You will only use one magazine.
Revolver qual was first. You put your pistol back in the bag/case and moved it to the 15 yard line and then then moved the barrel to the 3 yard line.
I scribbled these lines down as the previous relay finished. These are typical commands from the tower.
At this time shooters load with five rounds.
The next stage of fire will be one shot in two seconds, five times.
Is the line ready? If no one indicates otherwise....
The line is ready.
Shooters go ahead and grab your weapons.
Make ready. Load magazine for pistol.
One shot each, two seconds.
Is the line ready?
The line is ready. Targets turn, open fire.
Shooters unload and safe your weapon. Place on barrel.

We even moved the barrels by order. Shooters, pick up your barrel. Shooters, move to the 7 yard line. Had to move it insuring the weapon remained pointing down range.
The Firearm Instruction lieutenant ran the tower, sargents and troopers on the line, about 1 per 6 shooters.
After completing the course of fire targets are graded by the shooter to your left. Next time its to the right. Then instructors walk the line checking scores and collecting cards. Once the pistol cards are collected and all accounted for we were free to leave.
Oh, did I mention it was 35 degrees with a wind chill of 28 for the first relay? Only slightly better for the second. If you attend a January class, bring a good coat and gloves just in case. Wednesday and Thursday wasn't this cold.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some general comments. They mentioned that they had been pulled from instructor duty earlier in January to provide extra security at the Capital. Evidently some thought this was because of OC, news crews even showed up trying to get a story but it was actually because of Paris and such. Evidently a November class had been canceled because they had to supply some people for border duty. LTC is not the only thing they do, it's one of many programs. In the next 18-24 months they have to run every trooper in Texas through some sort of re-certification so they are going to be very busy. I wouldn't be surprised if there's only one more class after the May one but that's just my speculation. These are very busy guys and they put as much time as they can into preparation but, as one told me, Regulatory Services are the real experts. They taught the course for years, this is only the fourth trooper class.

I might add on to this if something pops into my head.
Jay E Morris
Guardian Firearm Training, NRA Pistol, LTC
NRA Lifetime/Recuiter
Cibolo, TX


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