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Pariah3j wrote:

Solaris wrote: I could not care less how many people want to pile on me. I have yet to see anyone take one of my points and say I was wrong (for example say it is a good tactic to stand within striking distance of an adversary). but the night is early!

I'll bite... when exactly was he standing within striking distance of him once became a threat ?

I was thinking something similar. It is hard to know exactly when the drunk guy became an "adversary" in the eyes of the CHL instructor.

Soccerdad1995 wrote:...

Personally, I would not have gotten involved. The worst thing that the drunk did was throw chips at the clerk. ...

Assuming BG is drunk then the worst thing he did was drive drunk. Then he got angry and attempted to drive drunk and angry. Shooting the tires out on the drunk's car really isn't a viable option so the next best thing is get the tag number and description and turn him in.

Pariah3j wrote:

Solaris wrote: I could not care less how many people want to pile on me. I have yet to see anyone take one of my points and say I was wrong (for example say it is a good tactic to stand within striking distance of an adversary). but the night is early!

I'll bite... when exactly was he standing within striking distance of him once became a threat ?

He was condition WHITE for the first 2.5 minutes, but saw the argument and the clerk showing the guy the door and come back to argue. At 2:45 he exposed his strong side gun to the guy, within easy grab/strike distance. His head is looking down at his money in his hands and he would never have seen it coming. After he did at least go weak side but still way to close IMO and had his head looking down at his money in his hands again.

Did anyone notice the deadguy had a friend? He came in after him and took the beer the deadguy paid for and went out with it.

Sad ending to a even sadder event. The Instructor did all he could to avoid it .

Solaris wrote:

Pariah3j wrote:

Solaris wrote: I could not care less how many people want to pile on me. I have yet to see anyone take one of my points and say I was wrong (for example say it is a good tactic to stand within striking distance of an adversary). but the night is early!

I'll bite... when exactly was he standing within striking distance of him once became a threat ?

He was condition WHITE for the first 2.5 minutes, but saw the argument and the clerk showing the guy the door and come back to argue. At 2:45 he exposed his strong side gun to the guy, within easy grab/strike distance. His head is looking down at his money in his hands and he would never have seen it coming. After he did at least go weak side but still way to close IMO and had his head looking down at his money in his hands again.

We can't hear audio, so we don't really know when this guy really became a threat or problem. Yeah he's refusing to leave or arguing w/ the clerk at about 2:30, but no obvious signs that I can see to have caused red alert status. You say he's at condition White - I disagree. He observes what's going on, makes an assessment and shuffles to the guy's other side. In a convenience store like this your always within 'striking distance' of someone, esp while waiting to check out. He kept the guy at arms length - there isn't alot more room that one can give and still be in line.

My 2 cents - the CHL instructor chose to involve himself in an incident in which he was not a part of, chose to escalate the situation by following the deceased from the store, chose not to walk away from a situation that could only get worse by staying engaged. Had he walked away it is unlikely that there would be loss of life. Now he has to live with taking a life and deal with any potential wrongful death lawsuits from the deceased's family.

When dealing with belligerent drunks the best thing you can do is distance yourself from them. IMHO, the proper tactic for the CHL instructor would have been to walk outside and call 911 as soon as he determined there was a reason for police to respond.

On a side note: Many, many years ago I worked at a 7-11. As part of training management made it clear that there was nothing in the store worth dying for, so if someone wants to take anything let them have it and leave the property without escalating.

thatguyoverthere wrote:Open carrying armed citizen seems to stay out of it for a long time, but eventually tries to be a "good witness" by getting license plate number of the aggressor after the aggressor walks out of the store after having thrown things at the store clerk.

Assuming that it was obvious that the citizen was looking at the aggressor's plate, it could easily become an escalation since it's a threat to the aggressor's chances of avoiding consequences, but I'm not sure if this would have any legal ramifications.

rp_photo wrote:

thatguyoverthere wrote:Open carrying armed citizen seems to stay out of it for a long time, but eventually tries to be a "good witness" by getting license plate number of the aggressor after the aggressor walks out of the store after having thrown things at the store clerk.

Assuming that it was obvious that the citizen was looking at the aggressor's plate, it could easily become an escalation since it's a threat to the aggressor's chances of avoiding consequences, but I'm not sure if this would have any legal ramifications.

You are wrong on this one. It was a justified shooting.

rp_photo wrote:

thatguyoverthere wrote:Open carrying armed citizen seems to stay out of it for a long time, but eventually tries to be a "good witness" by getting license plate number of the aggressor after the aggressor walks out of the store after having thrown things at the store clerk.

Assuming that it was obvious that the citizen was looking at the aggressor's plate, it could easily become an escalation since it's a threat to the aggressor's chances of avoiding consequences, but I'm not sure if this would have any legal ramifications.

That is a use of the term "escalation" I'm not familiar with.

Would calling the cops be an "escalation?"

I suppose anything but hiding in the corner sucking your thumb might be.

There's lots of blowhards out there, most times they have their say and leave.

The stupid extra aggressive ones sometimes get killed.