Would you shoot?

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Abraham
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Re: Would you shoot?

Postby Abraham » Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:43 pm

The PVC pipe wielder could've killed with that pipe.

So, ask yourself, would you allow him to hit you or would you have employed self defense?


Soccerdad1995
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Re: Would you shoot?

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:52 pm

Abraham wrote:The PVC pipe wielder could've killed with that pipe.

So, ask yourself, would you allow him to hit you or would you have employed self defense?


There would be several failures on my part before those were my only two options, but as poker players say when they are reviewing a hand, as played up to that point, I would shoot instead of allowing him to hit me.
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sugar land dave
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Re: Would you shoot?

Postby sugar land dave » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:28 pm

With my age and medical history I'm not debating, I'm shooting. :tiphat:

There is a good old saying that applies here: "He who hesitates is lost." In other words a person who spends too much time deliberating about what to do loses the chance to act altogether. Better him on the ground and me calling for medical assistance than me on the ground and him still attacking me.
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bblhd672
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Re: Would you shoot?

Postby bblhd672 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:43 pm

sugar land dave wrote:With my age and medical history I'm not debating, I'm shooting. :tiphat:

There is a good old saying that applies here: "He who hesitates is lost." In other words a person who spends too much time deliberating about what to do loses the chance to act altogether. Better him on the ground and me calling for medical assistance than me on the ground and him still attacking me.


:iagree:
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tyree
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Re: Would you shoot?

Postby tyree » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:04 am

Wmsnider wrote:What would you do in this situation? Would you as a licensed LTC holder shoot at this guy (if it were Texas). Seems like immanent danger to me. But its a PVC pipe, so is it life-threatening?


I carry fox brand stream oc spray for situations like this. If i felt i could do it safely, he'd get a shot of oc before he seriously hurt someone. Safely in the sense that it didn't impede getting shots on target as a fallback if needed. Mrs tyrees 45 would help here...

Otherwise, yes he'd be receiving incoming rounds post haste. Hands, feet, and expedient weapons like that pipe kill way more people every year than firearms or knives. He showed his intentions pretty clearly through the unprovoked attack.


Abraham
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Re: Would you shoot?

Postby Abraham » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:53 am

Pepper spray vs. a deadly weapon?

I've watched videos of guys being hit with a variety of brands of pepper spray and quite a number of them kept right on fighting. Yeah, they were in pain, but they still kept fighting...


tyree
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Re: Would you shoot?

Postby tyree » Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:25 pm

Abraham wrote:Pepper spray vs. a deadly weapon?

I've watched videos of guys being hit with a variety of brands of pepper spray and quite a number of them kept right on fighting. Yeah, they were in pain, but they still kept fighting...


Yes, 25% of the population is "relatively" immune from pepper spray. Like tasers and other less than lethal weapons, they cannot be relied upon for guaranteed compliance.

But I didn't suggest pepper spray vs deadly weapon. I suggested leathal weapon AND pepper spray vs a deadly weapon: "If i felt i could do it safely, ... Safely in the sense that it didn't impede getting shots on target as a fallback if needed. Mrs tyrees 45 would help here".

Law enforcement uses this approach every day without harm to the officers involved. If they can minimize risk to the attacker and bystanders by employing Tasers or pepper spray, they do. If they judge the risk of failure to be too high or the taser/pepper spray fails, they have immediate firearm backup through their partner.

It's a judgement call. I respect your perspective that you don't feel you would have been able to safely do that. However, I see some places in that video where it may have been possible for me to do so safely given the right circumstances. His life is sacred too and I would look for every opportunity to prevent having to shoot, but not so much that I or someone else were seriously hurt in the process.


rp_photo
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Re: Would you shoot?

Postby rp_photo » Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:45 pm

OldCurlyWolf wrote:Me too. Too old, fat and beat up by life to run. If I can't turn him, I have to stop him.


Age is your friend when forced to claim disparity of force.
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Re: Would you shoot?

Postby rp_photo » Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:47 pm

Here's a reply from a Liberal New York State resident to my Facebook post on the issue:

That "pipe" is a very thin piece of "p.v.c." id guess it weights no more than 1#.. still totally uncool but NOT life threatening.

My response:

I beg to differ. One hit could easily kill someone, especially a child or a senior, Texas law would most likely agree. The goal is to stop the threat, not to kill the attacker, and odds are just drawing would be enough with no shot required. Under no circumstances should law-abiding citizens be forced to put up with it!
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Glock 26, S&W 442, Ruger SP101 .357 3",
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rp_photo
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Re: Would you shoot?

Postby rp_photo » Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:50 pm

What's most important in this situation is Colorado law, which I suspect is more slanted in favor the criminals.
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Glock 26, S&W 442, Ruger SP101 .357 3",
S&W M&P 40, Remington 870 Express 12 ga 18"


rp_photo
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Re: Would you shoot?

Postby rp_photo » Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:01 pm

He may be a "bath salt zombie", which makes him all the more dangerous.
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Dadtodabone
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Re: Would you shoot?

Postby Dadtodabone » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:19 pm

Bitter Clinger wrote:
Papa_Tiger wrote:
Bitter Clinger wrote:
Dadtodabone wrote:
Bitter Clinger wrote:[*]
parabelum wrote:
Bitter Clinger wrote:One word. Simple. Mozambique.



Five words. Simple. Don't say that in court. :biggrinjester:


Really? Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice... :angel:

3 times

:thumbs2:

... until the threat is stopped. Even with well placed shots, 1-3 is not guaranteed to stop the threat.


THANKS! :iagree:

No threat is going to survive a properly executed Mozambique

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/art ... ure-drill/
"Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris!"

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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: Would you shoot?

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:26 am

Dadtodabone wrote:
Bitter Clinger wrote:
Papa_Tiger wrote:
Bitter Clinger wrote:
Dadtodabone wrote:
Bitter Clinger wrote:[*]
parabelum wrote:
Bitter Clinger wrote:One word. Simple. Mozambique.



Five words. Simple. Don't say that in court. :biggrinjester:


Really? Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice... :angel:

3 times

:thumbs2:

... until the threat is stopped. Even with well placed shots, 1-3 is not guaranteed to stop the threat.


THANKS! :iagree:

No threat is going to survive a properly executed Mozambique

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/art ... ure-drill/


I like articles like this that explain the history and rationale of the Mozambique. Knowing that a given technique helps folks to understand that it was developed to address an actual problem, and not something that the "new kid on the block" dreamed up for his classes. (There is no "Zen and the Art of Gunfighting!" It's all applied basics.)

Thanks for posting.
Chas.
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