Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

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RHenriksen
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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby RHenriksen » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:02 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
parabelum wrote:
Jago668 wrote:You don't drive around with your seatbelt off and say, "I'll have time to fasten it before the wreck."


That's a pretty good analogy.

Yes it is! I'm going to use that in classes.

Chas.


I've used that, as well as: "By the time it becomes perfectly clear that *today* was the day you should have chosen to wear your motorcycle helmet, it's too late to go back to the garage and get it". Drives me crazy when people wear a helmet every fourth time they ride or some such. At the racetrack, I stress to first-time students that it's mandatory to check the corner stations for caution/slick/red/etc flags at *all* corner stations around the track, *every* lap, *every* session they go out. If they don't have that habit engrained, we don't worry about the line, we don't worry about brake points, we don't worry about anything else. To do otherwise is to get on the motorcycle w/o your helmet.
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treadlightly
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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby treadlightly » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:14 pm

Also, an empty chamber makes no difference in how a gun is handled. There should be no assumption of increased safety.


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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby twomillenium » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:00 am

I think it is up to the individual, just because someone else does something doesn't mean you should, unless it is because right for you. Having a firearm unchambered because you feel more comfortable with it is fine until you feel more confident in doing something else, but not having a firearm period because it is unchambered is down right silly. Don't be bullied into something you are not prepared for.
The video shown has so many things wrong about how it was handled that the store owner probably did not have a chance not matter whether he was carrying chambered or unchambered. The reasons he was shot happened well before he was trying to chamber a round.
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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby Lynyrd » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:31 am

Condition 1 for me always!

I understand that this will be debated,and debated, and debated. :boxing I have given up on debating this with one of my friends who WILL NOT carry with a round in the chamber. I even suggested to him that if he was uncomfortable with one in the pipe, carry a revolver. I hope he never has to act fast enough that the extra time to rack the slide gets him killed.
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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:36 pm

If a person is not competent to carry a semi-auto with a round in the chamber, then they should not carry a semi-auto. They should carry a revolver. Not having time to charge the pistol is only one downside; not having two hands available is another. Yes, there are techniques to use for one-handed slide manipulation, but someone one who doesn't have the self-confidence to carry a round in the chamber is not likely to be skilled in wounded drills.

I know some folks argue that it's better to carry a semi-auto without a round in the chamber than to not have a gun at all. I'm not at all sure that's true and my opinion is not limited solely to the condition of the pistol. It's unlikely that a person is physically and mentally prepared to deal with a deadly assault if they are at a stage in their shooting career where a charged pistol makes them uncomfortable. The only reason to leave the chamber empty is because one is afraid they will shoot themselves when drawing. (I don't buy the "bad guy may get my gun" argument.)

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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby parabelum » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:08 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:If a person is not competent to carry a semi-auto with a round in the chamber, then they should not carry a semi-auto. They should carry a revolver. Not having time to charge the pistol is only one downside; not having two hands available is another. Yes, there are techniques to use for one-handed slide manipulation, but someone one who doesn't have the self-confidence to carry a round in the chamber is not likely to be skilled in wounded drills.

I know some folks argue that it's better to carry a semi-auto without a round in the chamber than to not have a gun at all. I'm not at all sure that's true and my opinion is not limited solely to the condition of the pistol. It's unlikely that a person is physically and mentally prepared to deal with a deadly assault if they are at a stage in their shooting career where a charged pistol makes them uncomfortable. The only reason to leave the chamber empty is because one is afraid they will shoot themselves when drawing. (I don't buy the "bad guy may get my gun" argument.)

Chas.



So true. It might have made critical difference in the outcome of that exchange.

Imagine, even a small 2.5" 357 snub at that close of a distance would have done much more then a weapon in a non-ready state.
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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby ninjabread » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:40 pm

If there's a mass shooting in Luby's when you're eating lunch with your parents, a pistol with an empty chamber is better than a pistol in your car.

I don't know why somebody would be comfortable carrying a fully loaded revolver but uncomfortable with a SIG 226 or similar DA pistol. Unless you're suggesting no round under the hammer, in which case a mostly loaded revolver may be a better choice than a semiauto with an empty chamber.
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treadlightly
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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby treadlightly » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:35 pm

No round under the hammer, on a modern revolver with a transfer bar or other drop-safe provisions, has never made any sense to me. If the hammer is eliminated as the thing that might discharge the gun, about the only other thing to worry about would be the trigger. And to make that safer by removing a round would require removing the round in the next cylinder to fire, not from under the hammer.

Which would be utterly without logic.


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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby apostate » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:58 pm

treadlightly wrote: removing the round in the next cylinder to fire, not from under the hammer.

Which would be utterly without logic.

Unless you're carrying in Utah without a license, iirc. ;-)
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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby apostate » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:12 pm

treadlightly wrote:No round under the hammer, on a modern revolver with a transfer bar or other drop-safe provisions, has never made any sense to me.

The same is true with a modern DA semiauto with the hammer down, no? My SIG 228 should be as safe as a revolver if carried hammer-down. Same for a Beretta 92, etc.

I can understand concern with the striker-fired guns popular now, especially for new LTC. Not because they will "go off" by themselves, but rather because the triggers have less margin of error, like a vehicle that oversteers.
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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby treadlightly » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:43 pm

apostate wrote:The same is true with a modern DA semiauto with the hammer down, no? My SIG 228 should be as safe as a revolver if carried hammer-down. Same for a Beretta 92, etc.

I can understand concern with the striker-fired guns popular now, especially for new LTC. Not because they will "go off" by themselves, but rather because the triggers have less margin of error, like a vehicle that oversteers.


Good analogy.

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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby C-dub » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:45 pm

Is it just me or doesn't it appear as though the victim goes off screen to retrieve the gun? Maybe he does just happen to move out of view when drawing it, while creating some distance, but if that was the reason why didn't he shoot from there? It seems like he might not have had it ON him and had to get it.

I would think if this were me in those same exact conditions that, due to the proximity of the BG I might have grabbed for the gun to turn it in a safe direction while fighting for control of it. IDK, maybe that's just Monday morning quarterbacking talking.
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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby WTR » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:09 pm

Personally, I carry in condition 1. However, if you will Google "Israeli Carry", you will find that with proper training with draw and shoot methods candion 3 carry can be quite effective.


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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby NNT » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:10 am

After reading some of the comments, and the title again, I think I get the point, but I don't agree with the all or none statement. I think the point is if you are not comfortable carrying in ready condition, maybe you are not practiced or confident enough to carry at all? And it is less about survival.

If you REALLY want to be ready for the BG, you should carry it in your hand at all times, not a holster, because that second or two to draw it could be the difference in surviving or not. Or maybe you can't get to it easily because you are sitting, or, or, ... :headscratch There is always a compromise made somewhere between perfect safety and practicality.

We teach our kids in life you often have to choose between good, better, and best, not between good and bad. So if you don't carry in 'best', then good and better are no good?

I carry a DAO with a long pull specifically to avoid a light trigger as mentioned above. It is what I am comfortable with.

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Re: Put one in the chamber, or don't carry it!

Postby carlson1 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:57 am

"A stupid man learns from his own mistakes while a wise man learns from the mistakes of others." While there is always trade offs like a cover garment, sitting, seat belts, etc. . . there is no reason to add not having a chambered round. You will no doubt get hurt when you draw an unloaded pistol (unchambered) so it would be best if you don't carry with one in the chamber to not draw the pistol when trouble comes or as has been echoed throughout this thread just simple carry a revolver. There is no shame with a revolver and it sure doesn't make you a second class citizen. :thumbs2:
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