HB1911 Com Substitute

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locke_n_load
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HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby locke_n_load » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:45 pm

Committee substitute text for HB1911 released today.

I notice:
looks like a gunbuster bars unlicensed carry, and carry past that is a class C. Doesn't mention anything about sign requirements, hence I think this.
belt or shoulder holster changed to just "holster"

CSHB 1911 Final.pdf
(167.04 KiB) Downloaded 133 times


Edited - I originally thought the bill added exemptions to 46.03 and 46.035 for license holders, that was my bad (it does not).

Edited - official Committee Substitute bill text here, appears to be the same as the version posted originally:
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/85 ... 01911H.htm
Last edited by locke_n_load on Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
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G.A. Heath
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute and HB560

Postby G.A. Heath » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:11 pm

I don't see how it makes 46.035 void in any way nor do I see where it allows people to carry into schools. As far as I can tell 46.03 is left alone except for 46.03(e-1) and 46.03(e-2) where it is amended to allow unlicensed individuals a chance to leave the secure area of an airport like licensed people are given currently.

Edit to add: In 46.035 aside from making 46.035 apply to non license holders it does remove places of worship from the list of off limits locations that must post a sign to actually be off limits.
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute and HB560

Postby locke_n_load » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:39 pm

G.A. Heath wrote:I don't see how it makes 46.035 void in any way nor do I see where it allows people to carry into schools. As far as I can tell 46.03 is left alone except for 46.03(e-1) and 46.03(e-2) where it is amended to allow unlicensed individuals a chance to leave the secure area of an airport like licensed people are given currently.

Edit to add: In 46.035 aside from making 46.035 apply to non license holders it does remove places of worship from the list of off limits locations that must post a sign to actually be off limits.


Page 13 line 8, adds 46.03 and 46.035 to the exemptions for ltc holders and authorized carriers.
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute and HB560

Postby G.A. Heath » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:03 am

Actually that line adds an exemption to 46.035 for peace officers and such under 46.15(a) where the change to 46.15(b) makes 46.02 not apply to license holders AND those it defines as being authorized to carry a firearm w/o a license.
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute and HB560

Postby AJSully421 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:10 am

locke_n_load wrote:
G.A. Heath wrote:I don't see how it makes 46.035 void in any way nor do I see where it allows people to carry into schools. As far as I can tell 46.03 is left alone except for 46.03(e-1) and 46.03(e-2) where it is amended to allow unlicensed individuals a chance to leave the secure area of an airport like licensed people are given currently.

Edit to add: In 46.035 aside from making 46.035 apply to non license holders it does remove places of worship from the list of off limits locations that must post a sign to actually be off limits.


Page 13 line 8, adds 46.03 and 46.035 to the exemptions for ltc holders and authorized carriers.


I see what you are saying. Page 13, line 8 adds 46.035... but that is for cops, and everyone listed from page 13 line 8 until page 15, Line 6... at which time, page 15, line 7 starts discussing the groups for whom 46.02 do not apply (but that 46.03 and 46.035 DO STILL APPLY) and CHL holders are listed under there like they always have been.

This is the "Some animals are more equal than others" law that we have fought every time that it has come up to give exemptions to 46.035 for court employees, DAs, and other non-leo folks.

This bill does not exempt license holders from 46.03 or 46.035, unless that license holder is also a "special citizen" like a city attorney or probation officer, and others that are not TCOLE or Security licensed to carry a handgun as part of their jobs.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.


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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute and HB560

Postby locke_n_load » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:39 am

Man I missed the next subsection that starts off as 46.02 only. My bad guys.
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute and HB560

Postby Papa_Tiger » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:07 pm

AJSully421 wrote:
locke_n_load wrote:
G.A. Heath wrote:I don't see how it makes 46.035 void in any way nor do I see where it allows people to carry into schools. As far as I can tell 46.03 is left alone except for 46.03(e-1) and 46.03(e-2) where it is amended to allow unlicensed individuals a chance to leave the secure area of an airport like licensed people are given currently.

Edit to add: In 46.035 aside from making 46.035 apply to non license holders it does remove places of worship from the list of off limits locations that must post a sign to actually be off limits.


Page 13 line 8, adds 46.03 and 46.035 to the exemptions for ltc holders and authorized carriers.


I see what you are saying. Page 13, line 8 adds 46.035... but that is for cops, and everyone listed from page 13 line 8 until page 15, Line 6... at which time, page 15, line 7 starts discussing the groups for whom 46.02 do not apply (but that 46.03 and 46.035 DO STILL APPLY) and CHL holders are listed under there like they always have been.

This is the "Some animals are more equal than others" law that we have fought every time that it has come up to give exemptions to 46.035 for court employees, DAs, and other non-leo folks.

This bill does not exempt license holders from 46.03 or 46.035, unless that license holder is also a "special citizen" like a city attorney or probation officer, and others that are not TCOLE or Security licensed to carry a handgun as part of their jobs.
Licensed peace officers are special and according to our legislators should be give special protections not afforded to regular citizens. I understand the logic behind it, but I disagree with it.

One thing that I think people are missing is that churches have only been off limits to license holders if posted with a 30.06 or 30.07 for quite a while. The removal of 46.035(b)(6) means that a government owned church cannot be posted as off limits to a license holder.

Hospitals and amusement parks are off limits to non-license holders carrying a handgun by statue, but must be posted with 30.06 and 30.07 to prohibit license holders from entering with a handgun.

Now the question I have is, will the gun buster logo placed in the watermark of a 30.06 or 30.07 sign count as effective notice for a non-licensed carrier? Also means that if HEB wants to keep openly carried pistols out of their store, the only way they will be able to do that is post 30.07 AND a gun buster sign which will prohibit unlicensed concealed carriers as well.

I will definitely be keeping my license current.

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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute and HB560

Postby parabelum » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:47 pm

Papa_Tiger wrote:
AJSully421 wrote:
locke_n_load wrote:
G.A. Heath wrote:I don't see how it makes 46.035 void in any way nor do I see where it allows people to carry into schools. As far as I can tell 46.03 is left alone except for 46.03(e-1) and 46.03(e-2) where it is amended to allow unlicensed individuals a chance to leave the secure area of an airport like licensed people are given currently.

Edit to add: In 46.035 aside from making 46.035 apply to non license holders it does remove places of worship from the list of off limits locations that must post a sign to actually be off limits.


Page 13 line 8, adds 46.03 and 46.035 to the exemptions for ltc holders and authorized carriers.


I see what you are saying. Page 13, line 8 adds 46.035... but that is for cops, and everyone listed from page 13 line 8 until page 15, Line 6... at which time, page 15, line 7 starts discussing the groups for whom 46.02 do not apply (but that 46.03 and 46.035 DO STILL APPLY) and CHL holders are listed under there like they always have been.

This is the "Some animals are more equal than others" law that we have fought every time that it has come up to give exemptions to 46.035 for court employees, DAs, and other non-leo folks.

This bill does not exempt license holders from 46.03 or 46.035, unless that license holder is also a "special citizen" like a city attorney or probation officer, and others that are not TCOLE or Security licensed to carry a handgun as part of their jobs.
Licensed peace officers are special and according to our legislators should be give special protections not afforded to regular citizens. I understand the logic behind it, but I disagree with it.

One thing that I think people are missing is that churches have only been off limits to license holders if posted with a 30.06 or 30.07 for quite a while. The removal of 46.035(b)(6) means that a government owned church cannot be posted as off limits to a license holder.

Hospitals and amusement parks are off limits to non-license holders carrying a handgun by statue, but must be posted with 30.06 and 30.07 to prohibit license holders from entering with a handgun.

Now the question I have is, will the gun buster logo placed in the watermark of a 30.06 or 30.07 sign count as effective notice for a non-licensed carrier? Also means that if HEB wants to keep openly carried pistols out of their store, the only way they will be able to do that is post 30.07 AND a gun buster sign which will prohibit unlicensed concealed carriers as well.

I will definitely be keeping my license current.


I'm not sure I understand the part in bold, as it relates to US Constitution in general. :headscratch


One thing is for certain, those in sign business and jurisprudence will be pleased.

I'm going to enroll into law school at the University of American Samoa :shock: just to be able to follow all of this. Esoteric reference perhaps.
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute and HB560

Postby Ruark » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:52 pm

Papa_Tiger wrote:... if HEB wants to keep openly carried pistols out of their store, the only way they will be able to do that is post 30.07 AND a gun buster sign which will prohibit unlicensed concealed carriers as well.


Sheesh. So if a business had a 30.07 sign, but no gunbuster sign, and I wanted to go in carrying openly, I could toss my LTC into the glove box before I went into the store. Then I'd be a legal unlicensed carrier.......????

This is all going to be idiotically complicated. You won't find 1 business owner in 100,000 that will have a correct understanding of everything.
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute and HB560

Postby G.A. Heath » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:55 pm

Ruark wrote:
Papa_Tiger wrote:... if HEB wants to keep openly carried pistols out of their store, the only way they will be able to do that is post 30.07 AND a gun buster sign which will prohibit unlicensed concealed carriers as well.


Sheesh. So if a business had a 30.07 sign, but no gunbuster sign, and I wanted to go in carrying openly, I could toss my LTC into the glove box before I went into the store. Then I'd be a legal unlicensed carrier.......????

This is all going to be idiotically complicated. You won't find 1 business owner in 100,000 that will have a correct understanding of everything.


Or they could post an 07 and a "No Open Carry" sign
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby Captain Matt » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:29 pm

Where was this released? I don't see it on the official site.
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby jmorris » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:47 pm

The way I read it, the new verbiage for 06 & 07 prohibits both licensed and unlicensed carry. The text within brackets [] will be struck. Going to reduce the size of the sign.

SECTION 24. The heading to Section 30.06, Penal Code, is
amended to read as follows:
Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY PERSON [LICENSE HOLDER] WITH [A]
CONCEALED HANDGUN.
SECTION 25. Sections 30.06(a), (c), (d), and (e), Penal
Code, are amended to read as follows:
(a) A person [license holder] commits an offense if the
person [license holder]:
(1) carries a concealed handgun [under the authority
of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,] on property of
another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that entry on the property by a
person [license holder] with a concealed handgun was forbidden.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section
30.05(b).
(2) ["License holder" has the meaning assigned by
Section 46.035(f).
[(3)] "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written
language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06,
Penal Code (trespass by person [license holder] with [a] concealed
handgun), a person [licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
Government Code (handgun licensing law),] may not enter this
property with a concealed handgun"; or
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby TreyHouston » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:00 pm

I believe there will be business owner misunderstandings. I also think there will be a lot of misunderstandings to the general public. Therefore the sign should also be printed in German French and Arabic with 1 inch minimum letters. :smash:
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby apostate » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:53 pm

In Houston the election ballots are available in English, Spanish, Vietnamese and Chinese. That's for voting which is restricted to US citizens. Whereas a Texas LTC is not restricted to citizens, there is even more language diversity. 30.06/07 signs should be required to include all languages in which citizens can vote, at a bare minimum, otherwise they're discriminatory and culturally intolerant. :nono:
I'm too old for this...

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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby ScottDLS » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:05 pm

jmorris wrote:The way I read it, the new verbiage for 06 & 07 prohibits both licensed and unlicensed carry. The text within brackets [] will be struck. Going to reduce the size of the sign.

SECTION 24. The heading to Section 30.06, Penal Code, is
amended to read as follows:
Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY PERSON [LICENSE HOLDER] WITH [A]
CONCEALED HANDGUN.
SECTION 25. Sections 30.06(a), (c), (d), and (e), Penal
Code, are amended to read as follows:
(a) A person [license holder] commits an offense if the
person [license holder]:
(1) carries a concealed handgun [under the authority
of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,] on property of
another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that entry on the property by a
person [license holder] with a concealed handgun was forbidden.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section
30.05(b).
(2) ["License holder" has the meaning assigned by
Section 46.035(f).
[(3)] "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written
language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06,
Penal Code (trespass by person [license holder] with [a] concealed
handgun), a person [licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
Government Code (handgun licensing law),] may not enter this
property with a concealed handgun"; or


I think you got it. Keeps 06 and 07 as the (only) way to prohibit licensed/unlicensed carry under GC 411 authority, it still makes 30.05 irrelevant to handgun carry, and still allows for MPA, LEO, and employee carry past 30.06/7.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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