HB1911 Com Substitute

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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Fri May 12, 2017 2:00 pm

This is for folks who think there is a better, more efficient and successful, way to get pro-gun legislation passed. How would you do it? Don't give me generalities like "don't compromise," or "demand that all Republicans . . .," tell me precisely what steps will be successful at passing everything we want to pass. BTW, also list your experience and track record at passing legislation in Texas, so we can evaluate your opinions in light of your credentials.

Chas.
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Has your Texas Rep. co-sponsored HB560 yet?

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Beiruty
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby Beiruty » Fri May 12, 2017 2:07 pm

RossA wrote:To those who say that we should not have wasted time fighting for Constitutional carry, may I ask one simple question?
When is it ever wrong to fight for the Constitution?
And don't even give me your answer to that question. Go to a veteran's cemetery and tell them why it's silly to fight for the Constitution.
I took an oath as a young man to defend the Constitution. I never asked to be relieved of that oath.


Anti-guns folks believe that all your constitutional rights can be restricted. My right to Freedom is NOT, my right for life is NOT, My right to protect self and loved one is NOT.

There so many politicians who got your vote and would sell you for political gain or as a prevention of loss of political influence.
One can claim, that TX legis has some 900 more bills to consider and so many will die as well, I would respond: "Weed the chaff, manage your time wisely". At the beginning of the session, the legis was taking adjournments and now it the crunch time. Crunch time for what? To crunch and squash as many bills as possible.

Yeah, I got $6 per year discount on TLC :anamatedbanana :anamatedbanana
Beiruty,
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Beiruty
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby Beiruty » Fri May 12, 2017 2:24 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:This is for folks who think there is a better, more efficient and successful, way to get pro-gun legislation passed. How would you do it? Don't give me generalities like "don't compromise," or "demand that all Republicans . . .," tell me precisely what steps will be successful at passing everything we want to pass. BTW, also list your experience and track record at passing legislation in Texas, so we can evaluate your opinions in light of your credentials.

Chas.


Chas.

No one is questioning your credentials or your efforts in promoting the 2ndA rights
However, we have a super majority in the 3 branches. What is the excuse not consider a bill such as 560?

1) Permit-less carry? It was not a priority for CHLers, and I still value in CHL Know-the-law, shooting proficiency etc. We build a reputation that CHLers are the safest armed/unarmed community and the most law-abiding folks. I highly value such reputation and I do not want to see it diluted by some new-bees and see-me-yahoos.

2) Lowering CHL fees to $8 per year is nice, but is that enough?

3) Addressing the noise suppressors issue if it came out of NFA-3. The prohibition of Texas could be just un-enforced if suppressers get out of NFA-3, isn't the case?

As for your question about the Agenda of Pro-2ndA bills

1) Quantify meaningful 2ndA rights to be restored.
2) Make and promote those rights to restored
3) Rally the base and fire up support
4) Get said bills passed
5) Enjoy and rejoice

Rinse, and repeat.
Beiruty,
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parabelum
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby parabelum » Fri May 12, 2017 3:06 pm

Are We the People not allowed to voice our displeasure towards those we elected, those to whom checks we write, without being marginalized and frankly what I perceive right now is being talked down to?

Remember, We pay their salaries. They have been elected for the positions they made promises to deliver upon. They work for us.

I hold two degrees, one is in Applied Mathematics (who cares?) :shock: . I am certified Six Sigma Black Belt (who cares?) :shock: . I am also a certified Firefighter (who cares?) :shock: , but first and foremost, I am an American who is fed up with this nonsense. We are not dumb chickens here.

So, as far as my experience, it is irrelevant. What is relevant, to me, is how these elected officials treat me as a constituent of theirs, one who works hard with other Patriots to push them across the finish line when elections and contributions are due.

Some of us feel a bit slighted Charles, that's all.

I've talked to my rep, I have written letters, have made recommendations, all to find out that it fell as always on deaf ears.

I apologize if I come across as rude, but I'm simply fed up.
Last edited by parabelum on Fri May 12, 2017 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Ruark
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby Ruark » Fri May 12, 2017 3:24 pm

When is it ever wrong to fight for the Constitution?


This is an elegant statement, but one does not generate change and progress with such global, lofty sloganeering, no matter how "right" it is. You have to deal with reality and the real world, and how it works, not how you think it should be or how you think it should work. This constant, endless whining and trumpeting about "my sekkunt 'mendment rytes" is a good example. Everybody's heard it a million times; they're tired of hearing it and will shut down the minute they do. If you really want to be an effect change agent, revise your articulation.
-Ruark

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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby Beiruty » Fri May 12, 2017 3:26 pm

Ruark wrote:
When is it ever wrong to fight for the Constitution?


This is an elegant statement, but one does not generate change and progress with such global, lofty sloganeering, no matter how "right" it is. You have to deal with reality and the real world, and how it works, not how you think it should be or how you think it should work. This constant, endless whining and trumpeting about "my sekkunt 'mendment rytes" is a good example. Everybody's heard it a million times; they're tired of hearing it and will shut down the minute they do.


Simple question: We have a super majority in the 3 branches of Texas Government. What is the excuse not consider a Pro-gun bill such as 560?
Please looking forward for your thoughts.
Beiruty,
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parabelum
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby parabelum » Fri May 12, 2017 3:28 pm

Beiruty wrote:
Ruark wrote:
When is it ever wrong to fight for the Constitution?


This is an elegant statement, but one does not generate change and progress with such global, lofty sloganeering, no matter how "right" it is. You have to deal with reality and the real world, and how it works, not how you think it should be or how you think it should work. This constant, endless whining and trumpeting about "my sekkunt 'mendment rytes" is a good example. Everybody's heard it a million times; they're tired of hearing it and will shut down the minute they do.


Simple question: We have a super majority in the 3 branches of Texas Government. What is the excuse not consider a Pro-gun bill such as 560?
Please looking forward for your thoughts.


Beiruty is 100% spot on. :iagree:

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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby Jusme » Fri May 12, 2017 3:42 pm

I know that there are several here who are not happy with the speed, and success rate of pro gun legislation. Unfortunately, since our State Legislature only meets every two years, there are so many other issues, that may take precedence over our wishes, that have just as much constituency support, if not more, than ours. Education issues, are always a hot topic, and numerous bills are filed each year in that area. Property taxes, infrastructure, health care, all have a much broader support base than LTC holder's wishes.

Our voices have been heard, but just not acted upon as much as OC and campus carry were in the last session. I have lived here all of my life, and so I have a long memory, of failed legislation, and legislation passed by Democratic Legislature and Governor. I can remember when Texas was at the brink of bankruptcy much like California, and how far we have come in that we now have a surplus of money each year. LTC has only been around for 10 legislative sessions, and our numbers were not so massive as they are now, but we are still a minority. With the reduction in fees, and since unless a miracle occurs, 1911 will not pass, people who want to legally carry outside of their homes, and vehicles, will still have to obtain a LTC, I believe like Charles, that our numbers will grow exponentially, and with it more of a voice, in the next session.

This is an opportunity to flood our reps with our wishes for next session, and reach out to new LTC holders, or any who do not follow politics as closely as we do, and encourage them to contact their reps. Also meet everyone who is running as a potential, rep, and find out exactly where they stand on these issues, before voting.
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby Ruark » Fri May 12, 2017 3:53 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:This is for folks who think there is a better, more efficient and successful, way to get pro-gun legislation passed. How would you do it? Don't give me generalities like "don't compromise," or "demand that all Republicans . . .," tell me precisely what steps will be successful at passing everything we want to pass. BTW, also list your experience and track record at passing legislation in Texas, so we can evaluate your opinions in light of your credentials.

Chas.


I haven't had a material hand in passing legislation, but I've sat in offices at the Capitol and had good conversations and made suggestions that were discussed in legislative committees and organizations such as the Trial Lawyers, and then had good follow-up discussions afterwards.

I also have a wealth (about 35 years) of experience in state agency work, and have conducted seminars, workshops, and presentations to audiences of anywhere from 50 to over 3,000, in every case with sparkling evaluations.

I had (I say "had" because I'm retired) a reputation for being an effective negotiator who could walk into a high level commissioner's office and walk out a few minutes later with a smile, a handshake and a major policy change that everyone assumed was impossible.

From what I can tell, working with the legislature, just like working with any organization, has two operative components. First, knowledge of how the legislature works, i.e. all the committees, rules, processes, procedures, etc. We've talked about many of these here on the forum, and owe Charles a mountain of gratitude for his guidance. Participating in this forum the past couple of years has been like taking a class in Texas Government, and I feel like I'm still scratching the surface. Just last night I learned about "tags" in the Calendars Committee. Jot, jot, jot.

Second, though.... it's just you. You have to have your self-presentation down pat, and your t's crossed and i's dotted. You have to know how to articulate your way through a verbal mine field and communicate effectively - REALLY effectively - with someone who may be vastly more powerful than you, and to know how to instantly see their inner cores and how their minds work, and adjust your interactions accordingly, on the fly, where a single erroneously chosen word, a twitch of an eyebrow, can bring your efforts crashing down like the Hindenberg. This, folks, is what it's really all about.
-Ruark


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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby Ruark » Fri May 12, 2017 3:57 pm

Beiruty wrote:
Ruark wrote:
When is it ever wrong to fight for the Constitution?


This is an elegant statement, but one does not generate change and progress with such global, lofty sloganeering, no matter how "right" it is. You have to deal with reality and the real world, and how it works, not how you think it should be or how you think it should work. This constant, endless whining and trumpeting about "my sekkunt 'mendment rytes" is a good example. Everybody's heard it a million times; they're tired of hearing it and will shut down the minute they do.


Simple question: We have a super majority in the 3 branches of Texas Government. What is the excuse not consider a Pro-gun bill such as 560?
Please looking forward for your thoughts.


It has nothing to do with being "considered." Somebody, somewhere, pulled its plug. It only takes one recalcitrant liberal hothead to kill a bill.
-Ruark

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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby ScottDLS » Fri May 12, 2017 4:01 pm

I prefer to moan and complain on an internet forum. Sometimes I also vote. And occasionally I act as a proverbial "test case". :biggrinjester:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby dlh » Fri May 12, 2017 4:04 pm

I have followed the Texas Legislature for about 40 years now. In the last few years whenever the oil and gas industry and the insurance industry wanted something---well--they usually got it. Other folks---well..partly cloudy.


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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby SewTexas » Fri May 12, 2017 4:34 pm

Here's my view on all of this...for what it's worth.

it's been stated that it's the "Calendar Committee's" fault that a bill, or another bill hasn't gotten to the floor. Or that it's some other committee's fault that a bill wasn't voted out. The way I understand it, the Calendar Committees are pretty much the most powerful committees and yeh, I absolutely agree they should be on video, that should go before the "transparency in government" committee,...that said, who appoints the member to the committees? Strauss and Paxton, I think. If Strauss is appointing people to the most powerful committee, why on earth would he appoint people he can't depend on? even Dems? I would think the Calendar Comm. would be a big reward type thing....and one wouldn't get on it and then make him mad...
Add to that, it seems like the whole House has been a mess this session, esp the last week....Strauss has had very little control....you just have to watch for a while to see it. Last night was a good example.

I don't know if any of this makes sense or if it's just ramblings....
~Tracy
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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Fri May 12, 2017 4:42 pm

I started to respond to specific posts, but it's better to do so in a general post. I understand people's frustration about the number of gun bills that will be passed this session. I share that frustration, especially concerning HB560 that I have promoted for 10 years. I don't have a problem with people expressing their frustrations, as I plan to do after the session is over. However, if you care about passing as many bills as possible in the closing days of the session, then hold your complaints until after the session closes. There is a critical bill that still has a chance and that will help gun owners dramatically. The last thing we need is for pro-gun legislators to get the opinion that the 2A community is going to blast them regardless of what happens in the next few days. (I'm talking about SB349 that doesn't change Texas law but clarifies it so dishonest local officials can't abuse and avoid current Texas law.)

Some argue that we should get anything and everything we want when we want it, because we have a super majority. While that's true, not every Republican puts gun issues at the top of their agendas. Not all of their constituents place 2A issues at the top of their lists. The people they elect must/should address the issues their constituents want by filing and working bills on many different topics. Many conservative groups are making the same argument, "why didn't we get everything we wanted?"

Last session saw the expenditure of many years worth of political capital and good will passing campus-carry and open-carry in one session. It wasn't easy for us or for legislators since it put friend against friend, especially with campus-carry. We knew before the 2017 Texas legislative session began that this was not going to be a "gun session." We have passed a bill that will make it possible for many millions of Texans to be able to afford to get and renew an LTC. SB16 wasn't front-page news and it didn't have the sex appeal of open-carry or campus-carry, but it will impact far more people. If we can pass SB349 discussed above, then those two bills alone would make 2017 a successful session, albeit without the number of bills we've passed in prior sessions. (This is especially true in light of the number of anti-gun bills filed that we were able to kill.)

I have to admit that my responses to some posts were less than statesmanlike and for that I apologize. While I share your frustration at seeing good bills die without even a hearing, I am also frustrated at some of our Members who make it clear that they believe that the session would have been more successful, if we had taken a firebrand approach. (That has worked so well for people and organizations that have relied upon that approach this session and in past sessions.) In some ways, people get spoiled to success and expect even better things in each successive session. That's not the way it works. At the end of the day, it's still politics. Whether you feel that is a dirty word or not, that's the reality we face.

To those I offended, I again apologize. I also ask you to consider how your comments are interpreted not just by me, but others who have fought for gun owners for years. Attacking your champions, either directly or by implication, doesn't motivate us. It makes us want to say "to heck with it, let's go fishing."

Chas.
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby TexasJohnBoy » Fri May 12, 2017 4:50 pm

Well said Charles. I'm very happy that SB16 got through and that will help is and others much in the future.

I stand ready to email and call when you sound the alarms on SB349
TSRA Member since 5/30/15; NRA Member since 10/31/14


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