HB1911 Com Substitute

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parabelum
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby parabelum » Fri May 12, 2017 5:01 pm

Well stated and understood Charles.

My Mediterranean European passion sometimes/oftentimes gets the best of me.

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Jusme
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby Jusme » Fri May 12, 2017 5:15 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I started to respond to specific posts, but it's better to do so in a general post. I understand people's frustration about the number of gun bills that will be passed this session. I share that frustration, especially concerning HB560 that I have promoted for 10 years. I don't have a problem with people expressing their frustrations, as I plan to do after the session is over. However, if you care about passing as many bills as possible in the closing days of the session, then hold your complaints until after the session closes. There is a critical bill that still has a chance and that will help gun owners dramatically. The last thing we need is for pro-gun legislators to get the opinion that the 2A community is going to blast them regardless of what happens in the next few days. (I'm talking about SB349 that doesn't change Texas law but clarifies it so dishonest local officials can't abuse and avoid current Texas law.)

Some argue that we should get anything and everything we want when we want it, because we have a super majority. While that's true, not every Republican puts gun issues at the top of their agendas. Not all of their constituents place 2A issues at the top of their lists. The people they elect must/should address the issues their constituents want by filing and working bills on many different topics. Many conservative groups are making the same argument, "why didn't we get everything we wanted?"

Last session saw the expenditure of many years worth of political capital and good will passing campus-carry and open-carry in one session. It wasn't easy for us or for legislators since it put friend against friend, especially with campus-carry. We knew before the 2017 Texas legislative session began that this was not going to be a "gun session." We have passed a bill that will make it possible for many millions of Texans to be able to afford to get and renew an LTC. SB16 wasn't front-page news and it didn't have the sex appeal of open-carry or campus-carry, but it will impact far more people. If we can pass SB349 discussed above, then those two bills alone would make 2017 a successful session, albeit without the number of bills we've passed in prior sessions. (This is especially true in light of the number of anti-gun bills filed that we were able to kill.)

I have to admit that my responses to some posts were less than statesmanlike and for that I apologize. While I share your frustration at seeing good bills die without even a hearing, I am also frustrated at some of our Members who make it clear that they believe that the session would have been more successful, if we had taken a firebrand approach. (That has worked so well for people and organizations that have relied upon that approach this session and in past sessions.) In some ways, people get spoiled to success and expect even better things in each successive session. That's not the way it works. At the end of the day, it's still politics. Whether you feel that is a dirty word or not, that's the reality we face.

To those I offended, I again apologize. I also ask you to consider how your comments are interpreted not just by me, but others who have fought for gun owners for years. Attacking your champions, either directly or by implication, doesn't motivate us. It makes us want to say "to heck with it, let's go fishing."

Chas.


Charles you have not offended me, and as a native Texan, for the last 56 years, I fully understand how difficult it is to get legislation moved through to the Governor's desk.

While the majority of members here, share the same desires, we only represent a portion of LTC holders. There are hundreds, of thousands, who are not nearly as tuned in as we are. Also a very large percentage of members, are no longer even active on the forum, so despite our efforts, a few hundred calls, emails, etc, will not have the impact we would all like to think that it does.

Charles, along with several others, have actually done more than we can do as a collective, and has a record worthy of praise for the progress we have made, not only as LTC holders, but gun owners, gun range owners, etc.

My fear is that we become, a mirror image of the echo chamber, we denigrate in leftists, and start picking apart our reps who are actually on our side, but may be getting conflicting opinions from others in their districts.
JMHO
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:

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Flightmare
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby Flightmare » Fri May 12, 2017 5:48 pm

I'm one that believes that ANY progress is success. SB16 was a step in the right direction. Some sessions we will have more success than others. But each time we advance our position in defending the 2nd amendment, we should consider it a victory.
Deplorable lunatic since 2016


ninjabread
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby ninjabread » Fri May 12, 2017 6:09 pm

SewTexas wrote:The way I understand it, the Calendar Committees are pretty much the most powerful committees and yeh, I absolutely agree they should be on video, that should go before the "transparency in government" committee,...that said, who appoints the member to the committees? Strauss and Paxton, I think. If Strauss is appointing people to the most powerful committee, why on earth would he appoint people he can't depend on?

Straus does appoint people he can depend on. He can depend on them to kill the bills he doesn't want to come to the floor for a vote, while he pretends he's not responsible.
eppur si muove

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mojo84
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby mojo84 » Fri May 12, 2017 6:14 pm

With all due respect and appreciation for the efforts of the insiders that have accomplished a lot in the way of improving our laws. This thread has become a perfect example of why republicans struggle even when we have the majority and control the various branches of government. Republicans are too quick and willing to eat their own.

The giant pink elephant in the room is the same whether the legislature is in session or not. It's not the true conservatives and republicans in the house and senate that are the problem. It is the RINOS and Dems that oppose conservative legislation that supports Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. If an inordinate amount of power wasn't concentrated in one position that is controlled by a RINO, there's a good chance we wouldn't be in such a position where frustrations are at a level that we are scolding each other like they are children or fighting among ourselves while we achieve less results than we all want. Maybe the real fight should be to get real conservative republicans in office and positions of power so we do not have such formidable barriers and obstacles to getting our gun legislation at least to the floor where it can be debated and voted on so we can see where OUR REPRESENTATIVES really stand on the issues we hold dear. As it is done now, we do not really know where they stand on the issues and too much is done behind the scenes where us mere voters and taxpayers aren't privy to what is really going on. It also doesn't help for us to be told how we should have confidence in the insiders and to just trust what is being done and then little gets done.

Bottom line, there is too little tranparency and too much backroom dealings that happen just to be told be content with what you get because that is the best that can be done. Whether the lege is in session or not, we need to make changes to how things are done and there needs to be more transparency. If this were to happen, I bet money people would be much less surprised and frustrated and we could have a much better informed voter.

None of this is meant to be supportive of a "firebrand" approach as I have never advocated that and never will. However, I do believe in calling a spade a spade and a RINO a RINO. Legislators need to be able to be held accountable to their constituents on all issues.

We need to stop creating an environment where the liberal leftwingers win even when they lose.
******TRIGGER WARNING****** If offended, go find yourself a safe place and color a pretty picture.

My rep said he would consider supporting HB560. https://www.texasfirearmscoalition.com/ ... since-2007


ninjabread
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby ninjabread » Fri May 12, 2017 6:19 pm

Papa_Tiger wrote:I can just about guarantee that if these Freedom Caucus members are around next session, they will feel the wrath of the House leadership and will have a hard time getting hearings on their bills in committee.

Like the fair hearing 560 got this year? Or the way 1911 was killed in calendars?

Papa_Tiger wrote:Retribution, regardless of how it is veiled (opposing these bills on "policy") is not a great way to win friends, influence people and bring people around to your viewpoint.

Straus does that session after session and it works for him. Maybe conservatives should speak a language he understands?
eppur si muove

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GaryTx
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby GaryTx » Fri May 12, 2017 7:15 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I started to respond to specific posts, but it's better to do so in a general post. I understand people's frustration about the number of gun bills that will be passed this session. I share that frustration, especially concerning HB560 that I have promoted for 10 years. I don't have a problem with people expressing their frustrations, as I plan to do after the session is over. However, if you care about passing as many bills as possible in the closing days of the session, then hold your complaints until after the session closes. There is a critical bill that still has a chance and that will help gun owners dramatically. The last thing we need is for pro-gun legislators to get the opinion that the 2A community is going to blast them regardless of what happens in the next few days. (I'm talking about SB349 that doesn't change Texas law but clarifies it so dishonest local officials can't abuse and avoid current Texas law.)

Some argue that we should get anything and everything we want when we want it, because we have a super majority. While that's true, not every Republican puts gun issues at the top of their agendas. Not all of their constituents place 2A issues at the top of their lists. The people they elect must/should address the issues their constituents want by filing and working bills on many different topics. Many conservative groups are making the same argument, "why didn't we get everything we wanted?"

Last session saw the expenditure of many years worth of political capital and good will passing campus-carry and open-carry in one session. It wasn't easy for us or for legislators since it put friend against friend, especially with campus-carry. We knew before the 2017 Texas legislative session began that this was not going to be a "gun session." We have passed a bill that will make it possible for many millions of Texans to be able to afford to get and renew an LTC. SB16 wasn't front-page news and it didn't have the sex appeal of open-carry or campus-carry, but it will impact far more people. If we can pass SB349 discussed above, then those two bills alone would make 2017 a successful session, albeit without the number of bills we've passed in prior sessions. (This is especially true in light of the number of anti-gun bills filed that we were able to kill.)

I have to admit that my responses to some posts were less than statesmanlike and for that I apologize. While I share your frustration at seeing good bills die without even a hearing, I am also frustrated at some of our Members who make it clear that they believe that the session would have been more successful, if we had taken a firebrand approach. (That has worked so well for people and organizations that have relied upon that approach this session and in past sessions.) In some ways, people get spoiled to success and expect even better things in each successive session. That's not the way it works. At the end of the day, it's still politics. Whether you feel that is a dirty word or not, that's the reality we face.

To those I offended, I again apologize. I also ask you to consider how your comments are interpreted not just by me, but others who have fought for gun owners for years. Attacking your champions, either directly or by implication, doesn't motivate us. It makes us want to say "to heck with it, let's go fishing."

Chas.

Very well stated, Chas. Put me down as one who greatly appreciates your 2A efforts.
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mojo84
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby mojo84 » Fri May 12, 2017 8:12 pm

This discusses how the legislators hide their true positions behind the committees and calendars.

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/05/12 ... ervatives/
******TRIGGER WARNING****** If offended, go find yourself a safe place and color a pretty picture.

My rep said he would consider supporting HB560. https://www.texasfirearmscoalition.com/ ... since-2007


roadkill
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby roadkill » Fri May 12, 2017 8:26 pm

As pro 2nd Amendment as Abbot and Paxton have been I'm hoping that Abbott will call a special session for SB560 if it doesnt make it into law. I know its dead but it could be put forth as an amendment onto something, I think. I'm still new to learning all the rules, it seems even those in the lege aren't always more knowledgeable than us citizens. Such a complicated set of rules and hard to grasp when your only really exposed to them working every 2 yrs. If it doesnt make it we all need to express our support for it between the end of this session and the beginning/during the next. Keep it on their minds that we want it. Find those who support it and support them any way we can (money and volunteer on campaigns). Those who oppose it try and educate. Keep the pressure on them to support it. While they may never support it in some cases it doesnt hurt for them to know that you support it and are watching their actions. I believe that like open carry and campus carry it's going to take lots of grass root support to get it done. We can do it!!!

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AJSully421
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby AJSully421 » Sat May 13, 2017 7:35 am

There is not a 0.00000001% chance that a special session would be called for a bill like HB560.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.

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parabelum
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby parabelum » Sat May 13, 2017 8:52 am

I agree. HB560 doesn't stand a chance, currently.



Reason that Libs "win" even when they "lose" is within their tactics. They'll tack a multimillion pork rider for bear sex research in Montana to a bill dedicated towards funding vital infrastructure, military or education. So, when you vote against this bill because of that you are automatically labeled anti-education, anti-military etc.


They cleverly use these backwards bully tactics ALL the time. Next legislative session, I wish that "our" side would riddle bills they care about and those of vital importance for both sides of high brow legislators, with hundreds of pro-2A amendments etc.

Then, let the chips fall where they may. If you consider x bills before the lege, then load each bill with x+n (number of pro-2A add-ons) pro-2A tag alongs.

Flood them and let them then sift through that mess.

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mojo84
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby mojo84 » Sat May 13, 2017 9:30 am

I agree parabellum. However, I think each issue should be dealt with independently. Republicans stooping to democrat tactics is not the right answer. Changing the system in order to minimize abuse and exploitation is the better answer.

The current system needs to be tweaked. The answer is more transparency which will lead to more accountability.
******TRIGGER WARNING****** If offended, go find yourself a safe place and color a pretty picture.

My rep said he would consider supporting HB560. https://www.texasfirearmscoalition.com/ ... since-2007

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bblhd672
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby bblhd672 » Sat May 13, 2017 9:36 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I also ask you to consider how your comments are interpreted not just by me, but others who have fought for gun owners for years. Attacking your champions, either directly or by implication, doesn't motivate us. It makes us want to say "to heck with it, let's go fishing."

Chas.


Having just completed my first year living in the Republic of Texas, and being completely frustrated and dismayed at the federal government, I had high hopes for progress toward Texans' liberty and freedom under the law. Tempered however by the warnings of Charles that the political capital expended in 2015 would result in less pro-gun bills being passed. I have been frustrated because of OCT pushing their agenda so hard and TSRA going along on a doomed to fail bill. I cannot begin to understand the reasoning behind the TSRA's support of unlicensed open carry this session- perhaps there is a strategy being played out.
Charles I apologize for any comments I have made that seemed like attacks on you and our friends in the legislature. If it weren't for your efforts to keep Texas gun owners informed and working for our rights I would not be as knowledgeable about these issues.
Keep up the good fight sir. Your level headedness is a great example to all of us on the forum. :txflag:
NRA Life Member, TSRA Member
"The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness. - Robert Heinlein (The Puppet Masters.)

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tbrown
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute and HB560

Postby tbrown » Sat May 13, 2017 3:41 pm

canvasbck wrote:If I were a betting man, I would bet on CSHB1911 dying in calendars. I think (at best) we will see church security teams and a reduction in LTC fees. This session will go down as one of the least productive in decades as it relates to expansion of 2a rights.

Supermajority my hind end........ :banghead:

You make the common mistake of thinking Republican = Pro Gun.

I suggest voting for or against the incumbents based on their votes in committee and on the floor, not the letter after their name on the ballot, and definitely not their sweet nothings. It's a little more work but the results just may be worth it.
sent to you from my safe space in the hill country


OlBill
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Re: HB1911 Com Substitute

Postby OlBill » Sat May 13, 2017 3:59 pm

Incrementalism is frustrating, but it works.


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