The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

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joe817
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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby joe817 » Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:37 pm

Wow! I just went back and looked at the 2014 Republican Party of Texas Platform. It speaks on almost every topic we talk about every day. Very reassuring. Please take a good read. I focused on p.34.

https://www.texasgop.org/wp-content/upl ... -Final.pdf
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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby JALLEN » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:03 pm

Wars are won by economic power, to produce materials for, and populate armies, navies, air forces.

Having lived with term limits in a statewide basis for a couple of decades, I cannot understand why that concept is so often seen as a panacea, or cure all. It's been a disaster in California as far as I am concerned.

1. Office holders spend much of the time from inauguration plotting and scheming for a new office, and 2. Nobody stays in a job long enough to learn how things work, the result being that the entrenched unelected bureaucracy tells each crop of newbs how they should do things.

If somebody doesn't perform satisfactorily, it is up to his or her constituents to impose a term limit. I realize sometimes a Sheila Jackson Lee, or Nancy Pelosi results. That is their constituents concern. That district was drawn to elect that person.

OTOH, we also get in office dedicated folks who stay around long enough to learn what they are doing. Sam Rayburn, Gerald Ford, John Nance Garner come to mind.

I completely oppose messing with Article 3 judge life tenure. The problem doesn't arise when they should leave but when they are selected. I may be the only person in the country outraged by the election of Alcee Hastings to 11 or 12 terms in the House from Florida AFTER distinguishing himself as one of only half a dozen or so US District Court judges in history to be impeached and removed from the bench, and for bribery, for crying out loud. This lamentable record says more about the voters in Florida than him. The mechanism of the Founders has served us well, albeit imperfectly, but no tinkering is likely to improve on our results. More care in nominating and confirming would be much more effective.

Actually, we should use more care in selecting voters so the genius of the Constitution can once again be realized.
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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:11 pm

ScottDLS wrote:Was a bad idea 156 years ago and it's a bad idea today. Take the Federal government back with the methods that the founders laid out...elections, amendments, convention of the states...


Was it also a bad idea 240 years ago?
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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby KLB » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:24 pm

If Texas was to Succeed [secede] I believe it would be the entire state - don't think it would work if we didn't take that liberal haven called Austin with us

This brings to mind an old joke.

Consider the horror of poor Austin. Everything seems OK until you realize you are entirely surrounded by Texas.

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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby KLB » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:29 pm

TreyNTX69 says:
our leaving would be a huge financial loss and a continued threat for more financial loss. That's the bottom line why the U.S. would never sit back and allow Texas to leave.

I agree, but it is amusing to contemplate the lefties' inner turmoil over considering how altering the balance of the Senate might play out.

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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby Pawpaw » Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:03 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Let Hillary win and put her "people" on the Supreme Court, then revisit this issue.

Chas.

I'm so glad you posted that, because I was having similar thoughts.

If the Feds tried to respond with military force, that might not work out as well as they hope, given that nearly 1/3 of all military personnel come from Texas. :shock:
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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:08 pm

KLB wrote:
If Texas was to Succeed [secede] I believe it would be the entire state - don't think it would work if we didn't take that liberal haven called Austin with us

This brings to mind an old joke.

Consider the horror of poor Austin. Everything seems OK until you realize you are entirely surrounded by Texas.


One of the comments on the article suggests arranging an airlift to supply Austin. Funny stuff.
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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby DocV » Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:17 pm

ELB wrote:I think the article is just something the WP likes to scare its readers with - "Those crazy Texans! You know, where Ted Cruz is from!" --

Calgary? :leaving :biggrinjester:
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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby Tracker » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:24 pm

I'd like to see a serious threat to secede to rein in the Federal Gov, Oklahoma is more conservative than Texas. Every county in OK voted republican in last two elections.

The richest countries in the US are Silicon Valley and around DC. Power and money flows to Washington.

I'd like to see the 17th Amendment recended. Senators original purpose was to act as lobbyists for the state governments. Now senators are being lobbied to and can thumb their nose at the state legislatures. The 17th undermined states' influence at the Federal level

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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby joe817 » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:46 pm

Tracker wrote:I'd like to see a serious threat to secede to rein in the Federal Gov, Oklahoma is more conservative than Texas. Every county in OK voted republican in last two elections.

The richest countries in the US are Silicon Valley and around DC. Power and money flows to Washington.

I'd like to see the 17th Amendment recended. Senators original purpose was to act as lobbyists for the state governments. Now senators are being lobbied to and can thumb their nose at the state legislatures. The 17th undermined states' influence at the Federal level


Not quite I can agree to that but wow! What an interesting sidebar to the topic! I agree that California has a higher GNP than Texas, but not Maryland, or D.C. for that matter. Texas comes in at # 2 behind California in GNP. Next is New York.

BUT, want to look at something really interesting in terms of States GNP as compared to other countries GNP? This is REALLY interesting!....

Texas' GNP is on par with the entire country of Spain. California's GNP is on par with the entire country of Italy. New York....Mexico. Louisiana on par with Israel. Fascinating:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... n_2012.jpg
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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby Jeff B. » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:26 pm

Wow... Charles' comment is very much on target.

It's my thought that the nation that we knew as the United States is already gone. We've grown apart over the last 20 - 30 years. There are some, which I'll refer to as the Progressives. There are others that could be called "the right", but I think that's a weak generalization. Essentially, there are two competing schools of thought.

One (Progressive) feels that more government is better government. That certain people and the government should call the tune for all of us to dance to. The rights of the individual are subordinate to the State which is the supreme entity in the land and for the sake of this discussion, all knowing and all powerful. Many who subscribe to this mindset describe the Constitution as an outdated framework, written by men of a different time and culture and advocate for a "living Constitution" that is constantly considered and modified to adapt to the changes of society and the nation.

The other (the right?) has a fascination with the rights of the individual. This faction considers the Constitution to be a framework that outlines how our governments should function and interact and provides for the allocation of responsibility, power and authority between the States and Federal Governments, provides for the Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches of the Federal Government AND through the Bill of Rights, guarantees and outlines the God given Rights of Man. If you were to consider the current election and national state of affairs, you could say that many who constitute "the right" have some generally common beliefs...

- They want the borders to function.
- They want immigration laws to be respected.
- They think the Federal Government is too big.
- They think they are paying too much in taxes.
- They feel that politicians (of both parties) have become part of an elite that governs and doesn't pay attention to or care about the Citizens.
- They see an Army Major kill people on a base while yelling "Allahu Al Ahkbar" and they see a terrorist attack, not "workplace violence".
- They are alarmed at a Federal Government that feels like it should be able to listen to your phone calls, read your emails, monitor your purchases, classify you as a "threat" if your a Veteran, Gun Owner or member of certain political groups or are religious and don't believe in certain behaviors.

As such, we're headed towards a reckoning. I believe that the shenanigans that have been played with our fiscal house and the global economy will be what brings things to a head. I'd venture a guess that we'll end up in some sort of economic (most likely) catastrophe that will directly impact the ability of the Federal Government to function. As this happens and the States find themselves required to pick up the slack, the door will be open for States to essentially begin to operate with much more autonomy than before. There may be negotiated conditions that end up with the country functioning more like it did under the Articles of Confederation. The Federal Government may have to realize that it's actual power in certain areas is little more than ceremonial and be glad to accept that remainder of the previous relationship. Alternatively, you have the distinct possibility that a Clinton Administration with a "packed" Supreme Court embarks on a course that obligates Governors like our own Greg Abbott to seek a path of confrontation with the goal of separation. I don't THINK that we'd see violence and fighting as seen during the War of Northern Aggression, but the tensions, anger and frustrations of both sides could easily erupt into violence, especially given that the media would be whipping the emotions and events into a frenzy. That could be how in internal low intensity conflict could begin... However it goes, I think we (the right) will need to make a stand to preserve our God Given rights or accept the supremacy of and almighty State.

Jeff B.
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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby Tracker » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:27 pm

joe817 wrote:
Tracker wrote:I'd like to see a serious threat to secede to rein in the Federal Gov, Oklahoma is more conservative than Texas. Every county in OK voted republican in last two elections.

The richest countries in the US are Silicon Valley and around DC. Power and money flows to Washington.

I'd like to see the 17th Amendment recended. Senators original purpose was to act as lobbyists for the state governments. Now senators are being lobbied to and can thumb their nose at the state legislatures. The 17th undermined states' influence at the Federal level


Not quite I can agree to that but wow! What an interesting sidebar to the topic! I agree that California has a higher GNP than Texas, but not Maryland, or D.C. for that matter. Texas comes in at # 2 behind California in GNP. Next is New York.

BUT, want to look at something really interesting in terms of States GNP as compared to other countries GNP? This is REALLY interesting!....

Texas' GNP is on par with the entire country of Spain. California's GNP is on par with the entire country of Italy. New York....Mexico. Louisiana on par with Israel. Fascinating:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... n_2012.jpg



I don't think so, sidebar. Because the federal gov has gotten so much stronger states' rights has been marginalized. So know you have Texas having a [symbolic] debate about seceding. The problem with senators being elected by general popular vote you no longer have equal representation. Wyoming has a population of 600,000 while California is about 40,000,000. Because they both get two senators per state a Wyoming vote counts for 66 times more then a California vote. Originally, corgess represented to general pop at the federal level why the senate represented the stat legislature.

If the SCOTUS were to undermine the 2nd A like was tried in Heller I could see fed up governors telling them were to go.


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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby Tracker » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:33 pm

joe817 wrote:
Tracker wrote:I'd like to see a serious threat to secede to rein in the Federal Gov, Oklahoma is more conservative than Texas. Every county in OK voted republican in last two elections.

The richest countries in the US are Silicon Valley and around DC. Power and money flows to Washington.

I'd like to see the 17th Amendment recended. Senators original purpose was to act as lobbyists for the state governments. Now senators are being lobbied to and can thumb their nose at the state legislatures. The 17th undermined states' influence at the Federal level


Not quite I can agree to that but wow! What an interesting sidebar to the topic! I agree that California has a higher GNP than Texas, but not Maryland, or D.C. for that matter. Texas comes in at # 2 behind California in GNP. Next is New York.

BUT, want to look at something really interesting in terms of States GNP as compared to other countries GNP? This is REALLY interesting!....

Texas' GNP is on par with the entire country of Spain. California's GNP is on par with the entire country of Italy. New York....Mexico. Louisiana on par with Israel. Fascinating:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... n_2012.jpg


Oh yeah. On the wealthier counties, DC. http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvanriper ... 15c3115120


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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby Tracker » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:51 pm

Good argument, Jeff. That's how most of us see the political landscape. But let me throw this out http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/224340/ ... old-ahlert

And I'll add this. It might belong in Nation Enqure. I wonder if it's true. I can't help but wonder if this is why the republican led houses seem so impotent
Last edited by Tracker on Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Texas secession debate is getting kind of real

Postby Jeff B. » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:18 pm

I think what you can pull from that piece is that there are a lot of "Republicans" that are no more conservative than Barak Obama. They're elitists who are out for their own benefit and their primary goal is keeping power so they can enrich themselves, their cronies and benefactors.

Boehner has made me sick for a long time. That guy is as crooked as a dogs hind leg. I don't know any more than the next guy, but I do know that the Federal government is not looking out for us Joe Six Pack guys and does not have our best interests at heart. Most of the folks in DC should be in prison, not living the life of Riley off of the sweet of our brow.

Enough ranting for tonight, got to get up and go to work to pay for a bunch of others peoples benefit!

Jeff B.
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