mayor wrote:mojo84 wrote:Soccerdad1995 wrote:Appeasement is not what we need, either. That approach has proven to be a failure.
Personally, I feel that the founders got it right in almost all respects. Especially when they said that when a government becomes destructive of the means for it's existence, then it is the right of the people to overthrow that government and replace it with a new one. Many folks at the time called them "radical nut jobs". But they persevered, and I am glad they did so.
All of us who have fought in wars can agree that it is a terrible thing that should be avoided if at all possible. But avoidance of that terrible thing is not worth giving up our freedoms. That price is just a bit too much, IMHO.
Soccerdad, Appeasement is not what my comment is suggesting. Don't twist what I say for the sake of argument. I am very confident none of them was looking forward to and excited about the "fight". Don't try to claim they were.
I didn't read anything in Soccerdad1995's comment that suggested the founders were looking forward or excited about fighting. What I read from the founders is exactly the opposite:In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
I also see that the founders said it is not only their right, it is their DUTY to throw off such government.
I think the current evils are sufferable. I'm not happy about some of them, but I'll hedge my bets and hope that men smarter than me make the determination that they are no longer sufferable. If that time comes, God help us all. And when it is finished, nothing will be the same.
I didn't say he did. He is the one that went on the rant and brought up the Founders and tried to relate it to what I said about part of Sully's comment. While a battle may be necessary, it surely isn't something we should eagerly look forward to it as something that we "can't wait for". A civil war or rebellion is not equivalent to Christmas or our birthday.
Try reading the comments in context. However, I do appreciate you both for trying to give me a history lesson.