This Gun Instructor Says Many Who Carry A Gun Aren't Trained To Respond To A Shooter

There is seemingly no end to the extent to which anti-gun people and groups will lie about guns and gun owners. Post links to articles by these masters of prevarication here.

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montgomery
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Re: This Gun Instructor Says Many Who Carry A Gun Aren't Trained To Respond To A Shooter

Postby montgomery » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:22 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
montgomery wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Jago668 wrote:Considering that if you go to any training at all you get more training than 50% of the sworn law enforcement officers in the country receive.

And he made a critical error prior to grabbing his AR15 and responding to the ongoing shooting, and that was to NOT have any already charged magazines on hand for his AR. It is absolutely possible to keep charged mags on hand, without violating any gun safety rules. I wonder how many he dropped on the ground as he ran. But almost nobody can hold 30 5.56 rounds in one hand, let alone stuff them into a magazine while running, with a 7 lb rifle tucked under an arm. It is a safe bet that he probably had fewer than 10 rounds in the mag by the time he got there - the church being just down the block. And he was facing a determined homicidal maniac who had more than one gun, and who had charged mags for those guns.

Mr. Willeford said he fired three rounds at the scene (probably more because most folks that have actually been in a gunfight remember firing less than they actually did). During the chase, he had the presence of mind to check his ammunition. He had one in the chamber, one in the magazine, and none in his pockets. So, he showed up with at least 5 rounds to face a guy who allegedly fired 450 rounds with plenty to spare. Shocked he did not have magazines ready to go - but I am proud he showed up to fight with what he had.

The driver, Mr. Langendorff, had the presence of mind to call 9-1-1 while driving 95 MPH.

Yes, and this is exactly why I say his actions were heroic, and it is absolutely NOT my intention to beat up on him at all. My point about the mags was mentioned because, no matter how well performed the action is, there’s always room in the after-action analysis to learn from what went right, and what went wrong. Other than running down the street barefooty (I don’t do “barefooty” :mrgreen: ), which isn’t really a mistake, the unloaded magazine thing really jumped out at me when I first heard both him and his cousin’s oral recounting on video of what he did. He described grabbing “a handful” of loose cartridges (5 sounds like a “handful” to me), and said that he literally had no idea how many that was, and then started loading the magazine on the run. Not knowing myself the actual distance that he had to run, although I understand that it wasn’t far at all, I thought geez, what if he got there before he had finished loading the mag? Like I keep repeating, I don’t want to take away from his heroism at all. God love him for having the courage to do what he did. But I just think that a big takeaway for the rest of us is to have at least ONE fully loaded magazine ready to go......more if that’s what makes you comfortable (15 is the number that makes me feel cozy)......and I’ll bet dollars to donuts that our hero made the same calculation after it was wall over. I worry less about damage to magazine springs from long term compression - not really an issue with modern magazines - than I worry about not having enough ammo available when I most need it.

And I was in awe of Mr. Langendorff’s recounting of the story. He was so humble and straightforward in describing it. I was just really impressed by his humility. That was a man’s man, right there, without any bluster. I know they don’t know me from Adam, but I was just REALLY proud of those two guys. I don’t know if either of them drink, but it will be a long time before either of them ever has to pay for a beer again.


:iagree: :cheers2: :txflag:

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Re: This Gun Instructor Says Many Who Carry A Gun Aren't Trained To Respond To A Shooter

Postby troglodyte » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:23 pm

I believe I saw an interview (maybe on Louder?) where Mr. Willeford lamented that he didn't have a loaded magazine. He didn't dwell on it long but you could tell he was almost dumbfounded that he didn't have a loaded magazine.

I've watched so much that I'm not sure where I saw it and if it was actually Mr. Willeford or one of his spokesmen.


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Re: This Gun Instructor Says Many Who Carry A Gun Aren't Trained To Respond To A Shooter

Postby OlBill » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:12 pm

I have talked to some people in church, some of them don't carry because it's church.


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Re: This Gun Instructor Says Many Who Carry A Gun Aren't Trained To Respond To A Shooter

Postby imkopaka » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:13 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:This guy must be a legend in his own mind, but it's an idiot to the real world. This line from his "About Me" section of his blog speaks volumes; "I have sold more than 40,000 guns and I know as much about guns and hunting as anyone." Really? Nothing indicates he has any advanced training, has served in the military or as a peace officer, or has any credentials whatsoever, other than being an NRA Instructor. Yet he knows as much about guns as anyone. Hello Walter Mitty.

First, he makes a grossly inaccurate assumption that someone in the 50-person congregation at Southerland Springs had a gun and simply didn't try to shoot. Garbage! If that were true, then it would have come out by now. Also, with slightly over 4% of the population having an LTC, the chance that any of the 50 people (which includes several kids) had a License and a gun is almost non-existent. Those that do have a License could well have believed that their church was in no danger and didn't carry to church.

As to not being able to respond because they were not trained, again . . . GARBAGE!!! Look how many times we see homeowners shooting burglars, many of whom are under fire when they do so. Some of them have effectively returned fire even after being wounded. Most of these people don't have a License, so in all likelihood, they have no training whatsoever. In just the last year, there have been three or four untrained women well into their 60's who have successfully defended themselves against armed intruders.

Chas.


Amen. There's a reason firearms are known as "the great equalizer." Someone with a basic understanding of shooting will have a much easier time dealing with an attacker than a trained martial artist would. While I value my military and law enforcement training greatly, a gun is a gun is a gun. I would still be willing and able to defend myself without all that training.
Never bring a knife to a gun fight.
Carry gun: Springfield XD Tactical .45

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Re: This Gun Instructor Says Many Who Carry A Gun Aren't Trained To Respond To A Shooter

Postby Pawpaw » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:08 pm

troglodyte wrote:I believe I saw an interview (maybe on Louder?) where Mr. Willeford lamented that he didn't have a loaded magazine. He didn't dwell on it long but you could tell he was almost dumbfounded that he didn't have a loaded magazine.

I've watched so much that I'm not sure where I saw it and if it was actually Mr. Willeford or one of his spokesmen.

It was him. He also said he'll never be without a loaded magazine again.

It sure sounds like Dana Loesch doing the interview.

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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