Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

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txcharvel
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Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#1

Post by txcharvel » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:05 pm

I tried to make the title as dramatic as possible :lol::

I work in downtown Austin. On Friday I walked the 4-5 blocks to the county courthouse to vote. The county has metal detectors that everyone has to go through and the deputies stopped me as I was emptying my pockets...my folding 2.75" "Made in the USA" Buck Knife was prohibited. They pointed to a sign on the door prohibiting weapons. The deputies were nice and told them "I understand you're doing your job, but I believe you're wrong". I ended up leaving, quite anxious to get back to my office and look up the code...

I've pasted the relevant sections below. Bottom line, I think they were wrong. My pocket knife is not a prohibited weapon. If I really wanted to get testy, I could say that I was denied my right to vote...but that sounds to liberal :rules:

To the folks here that know...is this the correct code. If not, where do I look? I've already submitted my issue to the sheriff's office. Thanks all

Texas Penal Code

Sec. 46.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Club" means an instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument, and includes but is not limited to the following:
(A) blackjack;
(B) nightstick;
(C) mace;
(D) tomahawk.
(2) "Explosive weapon" means any explosive or incendiary bomb, grenade, rocket, or mine, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury, death, or substantial property damage, or for the principal purpose of causing such a loud report as to cause undue public alarm or terror, and includes a device designed, made, or adapted for delivery or shooting an explosive weapon.
(3) "Firearm" means any device designed, made, or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use. Firearm does not include a firearm that may have, as an integral part, a folding knife blade or other characteristics of weapons made illegal by this chapter and that is:
(A) an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899; or
(B) a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim fire or center fire ammunition.
(4) "Firearm silencer" means any device designed, made, or adapted to muffle the report of a firearm.
(5) "Handgun" means any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand.
(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.
(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument.


Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;
(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;
(4) on the premises of a racetrack;
(5) in or into a secured area of an airport; or
(6) within 1,000 feet of premises the location of which is designated by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice as a place of execution under Article 43.19,


Sec. 46.05. PROHIBITED WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) an explosive weapon;
(2) a machine gun;
(3) a short-barrel firearm;
(4) a firearm silencer;
(5) a switchblade knife;
(6) knuckles;
(7) armor-piercing ammunition;
(8) a chemical dispensing device;
(9) a zip gun; or
(10) a tire deflation device.

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tbrown
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#2

Post by tbrown » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:11 pm

I don't see anything in there that makes it illegal to carry a pocket knife in a courthouse but I also don't see anything that makes it illegal for the courthouse to prohibit pocket knives and use metal detectors to enforce their policy.
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txcharvel
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#3

Post by txcharvel » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:18 pm

tbrown wrote:I don't see anything in there that makes it illegal to carry a pocket knife in a courthouse but I also don't see anything that makes it illegal for the courthouse to prohibit pocket knives and use metal detectors to enforce their policy.
Private entities can make and enforce policy, but the courthouse can't make up their own rules. They have to follow the law, it's a public building.

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C-dub
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#4

Post by C-dub » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:38 pm

For what it's worth, probably less than 2 cents, I think they were wrong. I've been in many places that prohibit weapons with my old pocket knife, Kershaw - Blur, and no one has ever refused me entry or tried to confiscate it. I don't think I've ever tried a court house, but I have been in several places with metal detectors where I had to remove the knife and put it in the tray for all to see.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.

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tbrown
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#5

Post by tbrown » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:40 pm

What law says they have to allow pocket knives? There's no state preemption for blades in Texas AFAIK.

Several years ago, I made a purchase from Kevin McClung that allows me to bypass the policy-not-law knife bans, although I understand it's no longer for sale to mere mortals.

Best wishes in your endeavor.
sent to you from my safe space in the hill country

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C-dub
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#6

Post by C-dub » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:52 pm

tbrown wrote:What law says they have to allow pocket knives? There's no state preemption for blades in Texas AFAIK.

Several years ago, I made a purchase from Kevin McClung that allows me to bypass the policy-not-law knife bans, although I understand it's no longer for sale to mere mortals.

Best wishes in your endeavor.
:iagree: but it does seem a bit ridiculous and over the top, doesn't it?
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.

NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member


txnative1951
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#7

Post by txnative1951 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:32 pm

tbrown wrote:What law says they have to allow pocket knives? There's no state preemption for blades in Texas AFAIK.
That's not how the law works. If something is not listed as being illegal, it defaults to be legal. Now, the problem is that the legislators have created so many unnecessary laws throughout history that sometimes you need to create a law that allows something because some idiot previously mistakenly created a law that prohibited something. For example, in some states, Open Carry is legal because there is no legislation that prohibits it. Unfortunately, some laws are vague enough that law enforcement will use them for situations where they were not originally intended.

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jimlongley
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#8

Post by jimlongley » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:37 pm

Walked in to my polling place the other day, with my SOG clipped in one pocket, a SOG multi-tool on my belt, and a full magazine on the other side. Left the concealed carry in the car, and nobody said a thing.
Real gun control, carrying 24/7/365

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Oldgringo
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#9

Post by Oldgringo » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:50 pm

Once again, you're as drunk as, illegally carrying as, speeding as, etc., the fuzz say you are. It I$ your ta$k to prove them wrong. I'm not saying this is right or it is wrong, I'm saying it is the way it is.

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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#10

Post by Oldgringo » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:54 pm

jimlongley wrote:Walked in to my polling place the other day, with my SOG clipped in one pocket, a SOG multi-tool on my belt, and a full magazine on the other side. Left the concealed carry in the car, and nobody said a thing.
What? Bells didn't ring, lights didn't flash or horns honk or nothing? Oh, the humanity! We must have new and improved rules and safeguards. Do it for the kids.


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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#11

Post by apostate » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:02 pm

txcharvel wrote:I work in downtown Austin. On Friday I walked the 4-5 blocks to the county courthouse to vote. The county has metal detectors that everyone has to go through and the deputies stopped me as I was emptying my pockets...my folding 2.75" "Made in the USA" Buck Knife was prohibited.
It's been that way at the Houston courthouse as long as I remember. Even back in the 90s when they were allowed on the airlines.
I'm too old for this...

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jbarn
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#12

Post by jbarn » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:28 pm

txcharvel wrote:
tbrown wrote:I don't see anything in there that makes it illegal to carry a pocket knife in a courthouse but I also don't see anything that makes it illegal for the courthouse to prohibit pocket knives and use metal detectors to enforce their policy.
Private entities can make and enforce policy, but the courthouse can't make up their own rules. They have to follow the law, it's a public building.
Of course they can make up their own rules. There is no law that keeps them from prohibiting all kinves.
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas DPS Certified Private Security Classroom and Firearms Instructor
TCLEOSE Instructor (now TCOLE)

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jbarn
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#13

Post by jbarn » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:33 pm

txnative1951 wrote:
tbrown wrote:What law says they have to allow pocket knives? There's no state preemption for blades in Texas AFAIK.
That's not how the law works. If something is not listed as being illegal, it defaults to be legal. Now, the problem is that the legislators have created so many unnecessary laws throughout history that sometimes you need to create a law that allows something because some idiot previously mistakenly created a law that prohibited something. For example, in some states, Open Carry is legal because there is no legislation that prohibits it. Unfortunately, some laws are vague enough that law enforcement will use them for situations where they were not originally intended.

The pocket knife referenced in the OP is not a prohinited weapon, nor were they saying it was prohibited under law to carry it there. It is their rule, and they are free to enforce it.

The courthouse ban on knives has nothing with the legality of the knife. They just don't allow them.
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas DPS Certified Private Security Classroom and Firearms Instructor
TCLEOSE Instructor (now TCOLE)


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txcharvel
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#14

Post by txcharvel » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:31 pm



The pocket knife referenced in the OP is not a prohinited weapon, nor were they saying it was prohibited under law to carry it there. It is their rule, and they are free to enforce it.

The courthouse ban on knives has nothing with the legality of the knife. They just don't allow them.
To clarify, the deputies specifically said that under Texas Penal Code my knife was not allowed to be carried into the building. They also referred to a sign banning weapons "according to Texas Penal Code".

Plus, they can't have a rule to simply "not allow" something. It is a public building, if it not specifically illegal then it's considered legal. That is how our laws are written. My particular knife is defined in the law, but that same knife is not listed as a prohibited weapon. Therefore it is not prohibited.

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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

#15

Post by jimlongley » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:05 am

txcharvel wrote:


The pocket knife referenced in the OP is not a prohinited weapon, nor were they saying it was prohibited under law to carry it there. It is their rule, and they are free to enforce it.

The courthouse ban on knives has nothing with the legality of the knife. They just don't allow them.
To clarify, the deputies specifically said that under Texas Penal Code my knife was not allowed to be carried into the building. They also referred to a sign banning weapons "according to Texas Penal Code".

Plus, they can't have a rule to simply "not allow" something. It is a public building, if it not specifically illegal then it's considered legal. That is how our laws are written. My particular knife is defined in the law, but that same knife is not listed as a prohibited weapon. Therefore it is not prohibited.
I don't see your knife as prohibited either, you should file a complaint.
Real gun control, carrying 24/7/365

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