Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

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E.Marquez
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby E.Marquez » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:35 pm

ScottDLS wrote:
Weapons are defined in PC 46.01 and common pocket knives are not weapons, so there is no law prohibiting you from carrying them in a courthouse.

Not arguing your point...
But for discussion. PC 46.01 says
"(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument."

I ANAL, however......it would seem this is a gray area, and the LEO or judge could look at almost ANY knife and say it is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury by stabbing if the blade is more than say an inch long.

Would you consider being stabbed / slashed in the carotid or brachial or femoral artery a serious injury? knowing you can bleed out in minutes from such a wound?
How about being stabbed in the eye? trachea?

Any of that takes a knife of just an inch or less in most cases.. morbidly obese persons may be safer from a slashing or stabbing attack to an artery. And a judge may be well within thier authority to restrict carrying such a "dangerous" weapon. :headscratch
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby ScottDLS » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:09 pm

E.Marquez wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
Weapons are defined in PC 46.01 and common pocket knives are not weapons, so there is no law prohibiting you from carrying them in a courthouse.

Not arguing your point...
But for discussion. PC 46.01 says
"(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument."

I ANAL, however......it would seem this is a gray area, and the LEO or judge could look at almost ANY knife and say it is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury by stabbing if the blade is more than say an inch long.

Would you consider being stabbed / slashed in the carotid or brachial or femoral artery a serious injury? knowing you can bleed out in minutes from such a wound?
How about being stabbed in the eye? trachea?

Any of that takes a knife of just an inch or less in most cases.. morbidly obese persons may be safer from a slashing or stabbing attack to an artery. And a judge may be well within thier authority to restrict carrying such a "dangerous" weapon. :headscratch


Yes, but 46.03 only prohibits carrying "firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon in a courthouse. 46.01 doesn't define a pocket knife as an "illegal knife".
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby GlassG19 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:21 pm

jbarn wrote:
txnative1951 wrote:
tbrown wrote:What law says they have to allow pocket knives? There's no state preemption for blades in Texas AFAIK.


That's not how the law works. If something is not listed as being illegal, it defaults to be legal. Now, the problem is that the legislators have created so many unnecessary laws throughout history that sometimes you need to create a law that allows something because some idiot previously mistakenly created a law that prohibited something. For example, in some states, Open Carry is legal because there is no legislation that prohibits it. Unfortunately, some laws are vague enough that law enforcement will use them for situations where they were not originally intended.



The pocket knife referenced in the OP is not a prohinited weapon, nor were they saying it was prohibited under law to carry it there. It is their rule, and they are free to enforce it.

The courthouse ban on knives has nothing with the legality of the knife. They just don't allow them.



Jbarn is right. They can say, no drinks allowed, (soda pop or bottled water etc) doesn't mean they said it's the law. Their "rules" not "law". Unless they said "it's the law".
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby Solaris » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:04 pm

ScottDLS wrote:
Yes, but 46.03 only prohibits carrying "firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon in a courthouse. 46.01 doesn't define a pocket knife as an "illegal knife".


46.03 defines what is illegal. There is a difference between what is illegal throughout the state and what is prohibited in the building. 5 gallons of gasoline being an example of something legal almost anywhere but will be nogo trying to carry it into a courthouse.

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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby E.Marquez » Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:42 pm

Solaris wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
Yes, but 46.03 only prohibits carrying "firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon in a courthouse. 46.01 doesn't define a pocket knife as an "illegal knife".


46.03 defines what is illegal. There is a difference between what is illegal throughout the state and what is prohibited in the building. 5 gallons of gasoline being an example of something legal almost anywhere but will be nogo trying to carry it into a courthouse.

That was my point... the common pocket knife is not an illegal weapon, but it is still a knife, and as such "could" be considered a dangerous weapon. A rule applied by the apparent authority over the building might then forbid that dangerous weapon.
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby ScottDLS » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:04 am

E.Marquez wrote:
Solaris wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
Yes, but 46.03 only prohibits carrying "firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon in a courthouse. 46.01 doesn't define a pocket knife as an "illegal knife".


46.03 defines what is illegal. There is a difference between what is illegal throughout the state and what is prohibited in the building. 5 gallons of gasoline being an example of something legal almost anywhere but will be nogo trying to carry it into a courthouse.

That was my point... the common pocket knife is not an illegal weapon, but it is still a knife, and as such "could" be considered a dangerous weapon. A rule applied by the apparent authority over the building might then forbid that dangerous weapon.


The question then goes to "What would they charge you with if you sneaked one in?" A moot point since they just kick you out once the metal detector goes off.

So what if Dallas City Hall decides a handgun in a "dangerous weapon" and uses their authority to deny you entry if you're carrying one? What can you do about it? Or the State Fair...
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby PUCKER » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:24 am

What about a pen? I'm being somewhat facetious but in reality you can do a lot of damage (yes, more than my writing LOL) with a properly placed pen. :tiphat:

Anything can be a weapon if used properly, er, improperly....

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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby Breny414 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:11 am

ScottDLS wrote:
E.Marquez wrote:
Solaris wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
Yes, but 46.03 only prohibits carrying "firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon in a courthouse. 46.01 doesn't define a pocket knife as an "illegal knife".


46.03 defines what is illegal. There is a difference between what is illegal throughout the state and what is prohibited in the building. 5 gallons of gasoline being an example of something legal almost anywhere but will be nogo trying to carry it into a courthouse.

That was my point... the common pocket knife is not an illegal weapon, but it is still a knife, and as such "could" be considered a dangerous weapon. A rule applied by the apparent authority over the building might then forbid that dangerous weapon.


The question then goes to "What would they charge you with if you sneaked one in?" A moot point since they just kick you out once the metal detector goes off.

So what if Dallas City Hall decides a handgun in a "dangerous weapon" and uses their authority to deny you entry if you're carrying one? What can you do about it? Or the State Fair...


Dallas City Hall is prohibited by law from denying a CHL holder the right to carry. Is there a similar law regarding knives? The knife Preemption law says what is a legal/illegal knife but I don't think it prevents a municipality from prohibiting them behind a secured location.


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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby mayor » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:29 am

Oldgringo wrote:Once again, you're as drunk as, illegally carrying as, speeding as, etc., the fuzz say you are. It I$ your ta$k to prove them wrong. I'm not saying this is right or it is wrong, I'm saying it is the way it is.


$o, it'$ extortion?

I'm behind on my reading.

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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby ScottDLS » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:23 pm

Breny414 wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
E.Marquez wrote:
Solaris wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
Yes, but 46.03 only prohibits carrying "firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon in a courthouse. 46.01 doesn't define a pocket knife as an "illegal knife".


46.03 defines what is illegal. There is a difference between what is illegal throughout the state and what is prohibited in the building. 5 gallons of gasoline being an example of something legal almost anywhere but will be nogo trying to carry it into a courthouse.

That was my point... the common pocket knife is not an illegal weapon, but it is still a knife, and as such "could" be considered a dangerous weapon. A rule applied by the apparent authority over the building might then forbid that dangerous weapon.


The question then goes to "What would they charge you with if you sneaked one in?" A moot point since they just kick you out once the metal detector goes off.

So what if Dallas City Hall decides a handgun in a "dangerous weapon" and uses their authority to deny you entry if you're carrying one? What can you do about it? Or the State Fair...


Dallas City Hall is prohibited by law from denying a CHL holder the right to carry. Is there a similar law regarding knives? The knife Preemption law says what is a legal/illegal knife but I don't think it prevents a municipality from prohibiting them behind a secured location.


The firearm pre-emption and knife pre-emption says that they can't PASS LAWS (ordinances) making it ILLEGAL for CHL to carry, but what is your recourse if they physically prevent you from entering because you're carrying a pocket knife, or CCH?
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby cb1000rider » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:40 pm

ScottDLS wrote:The firearm pre-emption and knife pre-emption says that they can't PASS LAWS (ordinances) making it ILLEGAL for CHL to carry, but what is your recourse if they physically prevent you from entering because you're carrying a pocket knife, or CCH?


Lawsuit. If you've got a lot of time and spare change. I'd rather solve the more pressing injustices first, but that's just my recommendation.

Last time I was in court, that court had posted a dress code. If you didn't comply, you weren't allowed in the court. Nothing illegal about wearing shorts, but they wouldn't let you in either... Course, we don't have a 2nd amendment right to wear shorts. (or carry knives)

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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby ScottDLS » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:54 pm

cb1000rider wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:The firearm pre-emption and knife pre-emption says that they can't PASS LAWS (ordinances) making it ILLEGAL for CHL to carry, but what is your recourse if they physically prevent you from entering because you're carrying a pocket knife, or CCH?


Lawsuit. If you've got a lot of time and spare change. I'd rather solve the more pressing injustices first, but that's just my recommendation.

Last time I was in court, that court had posted a dress code. If you didn't comply, you weren't allowed in the court. Nothing illegal about wearing shorts, but they wouldn't let you in either... Course, we don't have a 2nd amendment right to wear shorts. (or carry knives)


Arms...include knives and even stun guns these days...but I won't be holding my breath for lawsuits for the polling places to let pocket knives in anytime soon. I'll just be secure in the knowledge that I'm not committing a crime if I sneak one in.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby cb1000rider » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:43 am

I noticed that stun guns were included by the SCOTUS. I was unaware that knives were considered arms. Did I miss something?


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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby EastTexasRancher » Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:09 am

I had to go into the Harris County Courthouse two weeks ago. I realized I had my knife on me, and thought "oh well, the worst they can do is make me take it back to my truck".

Knife went in bucket, cell phone on top, keys on that, then my belt and shoes. Into the scanner it went, and out the other side it came.

I grabbed my stuff, got dressed, and was on my way.

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Deltaboy
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Re: Denied Rigth To Vote...For Carrying Pocket Knife

Postby Deltaboy » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:25 pm

Sorry my polling place is in a church. :txflag:
I 'm just an Ole Sinner saved by Grace and Smith & Wesson.


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