El Paso LEO in counter

Most CHL/LEO contacts are positive, how about yours? Bloopers are fun, but no names please, if it will cause a LEO problems!

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Jusme
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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby Jusme » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:24 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:To the OP, since you mention that your son got a speeding ticket, what court is he supposed to appear in? If it is a federal or military court of some type, then it makes sense that the offense would have been committed on federal property, but if it is a state or local court, then I am guessing it is not federal property.

Of course, IANAL.



That was one of my questions also. Under what jurisdiction, would a speeding ticket be filed. Speed limits are set by the state, and are enforced, in either the JP court, for that county's precinct, or in a municipal court. The Federal Government, should not be allowed to enforce compliance with State law, nor issue citations. especially, for speeding, since it is not an arrestable offense.
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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby Wag2323 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:50 pm

cyphertext wrote:
Jusme wrote:If it is on base, there would be check points.


Not always... There is a great swath of land between El Paso and WSMR that runs through the desert... You can drive from El Paso up to NM 213, and take that road all the way up to the back gate at WSMR main post. That will be the first check point you hit, but you are on WSMR property long before you get there. This was 20 years ago though, so things may have changed.

Ft. Sam Houston, San Antonio doesn't have check points, at least it didn't when I lived in San Antonio many years ago. This too may have changed.


El Paso to the backgate of WSMR is still the same. No check point until you are actually at the base. Can't get through that gate unless you have the required ID no general visitors can go through the gate.


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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:13 pm

JustSomeOldGuy wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:I also know that non-Texas LEO's do pull people over for traffic offenses on Texas highways .... {stuff deleted here} This also happened to her on Hwy 59 outside of Brownsville (for driving in the left lane). I'm pretty sure both stops were pretexts for a fishing expedition since she was given verbal warnings both times and all of the officers' questions had nothing to do with the alleged offense that the BP agents were supposedly investigating. Things like "where are you going", "where are you coming from", "what were you doing in XYZ", etc.


ah, you mean I-69 (aka US77/US83)? US 59 goes to Laredo. And yes, BP down here will stop on any pretext and engage in a fishing expedition if you or your vehicle fit a profile.....


My wife was driving a black Tahoe with tinted windows travelling away from the border, and she is Hispanic. So I think she may have fit a profile or two.
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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby srothstein » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:51 pm

Jusme wrote: That was one of my questions also. Under what jurisdiction, would a speeding ticket be filed. Speed limits are set by the state, and are enforced, in either the JP court, for that county's precinct, or in a municipal court. The Federal Government, should not be allowed to enforce compliance with State law, nor issue citations. especially, for speeding, since it is not an arrestable offense.


Things may have changed since I was an MP, but military police have jurisdiction over service personnel at all times and in all places. San Antonio used to have an Armed Forces Police Detachment that worked out of the basement of police headquarters and patrolled the city, especially the tourist areas, looking for military men that were causing problems or needed help. They also handled calls with us if the call was off base and involved military people (it was a great way to handle a disturbance call since they could take the military half to the barracks and keep him there for the night).

I believe the problem here is that the MP's may have concurrent jurisdiction over the road. Before 9-11, Harry Wurzbach Road was a city street that ran through the heart of Ft. Sam Houston. I would patrol it as an SAPD officer and MPs could patrol it also since it was on base. No checkpoints at all. The MPs could write tickets to military personnel that were handled by the military unit (DD Form 1408) or to anyone that was handled by a federal magistrate (DD Form 1805). SAPD wrote tickets for municipal court to anyone we felt needed it there also. I guess the county could also write tickets to JP court but I never saw them do it.

The feds got jurisdiction from a federal law called the Assimilation Act. It allows the military to assimilate state laws for traffic and other minor offenses to prevent them from having to write all new laws for those same things. This is how the drinking age used to apply on base too.
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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby Jusme » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:14 pm

srothstein wrote:
Jusme wrote: That was one of my questions also. Under what jurisdiction, would a speeding ticket be filed. Speed limits are set by the state, and are enforced, in either the JP court, for that county's precinct, or in a municipal court. The Federal Government, should not be allowed to enforce compliance with State law, nor issue citations. especially, for speeding, since it is not an arrestable offense.


Things may have changed since I was an MP, but military police have jurisdiction over service personnel at all times and in all places. San Antonio used to have an Armed Forces Police Detachment that worked out of the basement of police headquarters and patrolled the city, especially the tourist areas, looking for military men that were causing problems or needed help. They also handled calls with us if the call was off base and involved military people (it was a great way to handle a disturbance call since they could take the military half to the barracks and keep him there for the night).

I believe the problem here is that the MP's may have concurrent jurisdiction over the road. Before 9-11, Harry Wurzbach Road was a city street that ran through the heart of Ft. Sam Houston. I would patrol it as an SAPD officer and MPs could patrol it also since it was on base. No checkpoints at all. The MPs could write tickets to military personnel that were handled by the military unit (DD Form 1408) or to anyone that was handled by a federal magistrate (DD Form 1805). SAPD wrote tickets for municipal court to anyone we felt needed it there also. I guess the county could also write tickets to JP court but I never saw them do it.

The feds got jurisdiction from a federal law called the Assimilation Act. It allows the military to assimilate state laws for traffic and other minor offenses to prevent them from having to write all new laws for those same things. This is how the drinking age used to apply on base too.




That may be true, but MP are paid, by the entire country. I pay my local LEO to enforce laws in my particular City/County, and my Federal employees, to enforce Federal law. Under What Federal law, does speeding fall?
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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby Jusme » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:17 pm

Under that scenario, Postal inspectors, could enforce Texas traffic law. JMHO
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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby puma guy » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:13 pm

There's a link in this article to a ruling by the 9th Circuit Court. United States v. Valdes-Vega. The scenario is not the same since it was Border Patrol but the question is can a federal officer make traffic stops. In this case it was used as an excuse to search for drugs and the answer from the 9th was no you can't do that.

http://volokh.com/2012/08/03/can-federal-border-patrol-agents-pull-over-cars-based-only-on-state-traffic-law-violations/
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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby 1911 10MM » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:08 pm

Just because there is no fence or guard post doesn't mean you aren't on federal property.


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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby WTR » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:51 pm

1911 10MM wrote:Just because there is no fence or guard post doesn't mean you aren't on federal property.


I spoke with my COE buddy today . He said that the federal gov. had deeded all land which loop 375 uses to the State of Texas. He said an MP has no jurisdiction as the land as it is not Federal property. Additionally, he drives this section of 375 at least four times a day and has never seen an MP patrolling the highway. I traveled the highway twice a day about a year ago for a six month project and I have never seen an MP patrolling . My friends first reaction was that this is a fake story. However, if an MP did issue a citation, they need to be reported. Lastly, as this is not Federal land you may have a pistol in the car.


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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby Jbpate » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:37 am

No ,this is not a fake story. I talked to my son and he insists it was loop 375 going past Briggs field westbound He had not just left the base, he was on Texas 375 coming from the area were Gander sporting store is. There was a number of other issues with this stop along with the "firearm" issue. A ,the ticket misstated what the speed limit was were the infraction occurred.B the information on the ticket showing location was incorrect , it said fort bliss not state highway 375. Anyhow , I suggested he talk to the officer or his supervisor . He called the station to talk to the officer and has been told the ticket will be dropped. I am glad he did not have to go the route of meeting with a supervisor to review the dash cam to review the " were and what speed limits ".My son said up front he was indeed speeding,just not to the extent the citation showed. As to the awareness of the firearm by the MP ,he asked my son if any firearms are in the vehicle . My son being honest gave the answer in the " affirmative sir, there is". So I am pleased he was able to resolve it. He will be going in to the station to get confirmation in writing. He said it would be bad to get back from deployment from Iraqi and have warrant out for failure to pay a ticket. I agreed with that. The thing that really got me about the whole deal was that " federal highway" bit, sheeees.


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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby twomillenium » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:24 am

twomillenium wrote:IF this did happen, I believe with the information given the MP would be mistaken. IF it did happen as stated.

So, it seems the MP was mistaken and it sounds like the MP knew the mistake and he was called on the cover-up, if it did happen this way.
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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby nightmare69 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:25 am

Jusme wrote:Under that scenario, Postal inspectors, could enforce Texas traffic law. JMHO


Expect postal inspectors are not Peace Officers in Texas. I remember that from the academy.
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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby Jusme » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:02 am

nightmare69 wrote:
Jusme wrote:Under that scenario, Postal inspectors, could enforce Texas traffic law. JMHO


Expect postal inspectors are not Peace Officers in Texas. I remember that from the academy.



Neither are MPs
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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby SewTexas » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:48 am

Jbpate wrote:No ,this is not a fake story. I talked to my son and he insists it was loop 375 going past Briggs field westbound He had not just left the base, he was on Texas 375 coming from the area were Gander sporting store is. There was a number of other issues with this stop along with the "firearm" issue. A ,the ticket misstated what the speed limit was were the infraction occurred.B the information on the ticket showing location was incorrect , it said fort bliss not state highway 375. Anyhow , I suggested he talk to the officer or his supervisor . He called the station to talk to the officer and has been told the ticket will be dropped. I am glad he did not have to go the route of meeting with a supervisor to review the dash cam to review the " were and what speed limits ".My son said up front he was indeed speeding,just not to the extent the citation showed. As to the awareness of the firearm by the MP ,he asked my son if any firearms are in the vehicle . My son being honest gave the answer in the " affirmative sir, there is". So I am pleased he was able to resolve it. He will be going in to the station to get confirmation in writing. He said it would be bad to get back from deployment from Iraqi and have warrant out for failure to pay a ticket. I agreed with that. The thing that really got me about the whole deal was that " federal highway" bit, sheeees.



I'm glad your son got things resolved. hopefully the MP gets a good "talking to."
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Re: El Paso LEO in counter

Postby RogueUSMC » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:05 am

SewTexas wrote:I'm glad your son got things resolved. hopefully the MP gets a good "talking to."

A 'Dressing Down' is the PC term the military tends to use...the terms they use most though are not forum friendly...
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