51% sign and not TABC licensed

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Neverpanic1
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51% sign and not TABC licensed

#1

Post by Neverpanic1 »

How do you handle seeing a 51% sign with no mention of that business in TABC's public query system ? Do you cover this topic in class ?
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oohrah
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Re: 51% sign and not TABC licensed

#2

Post by oohrah »

If the business in fact has a current TABC license, whether BLUE or RED, it has to be in the TABC system. The problem is often difficulty with doing a search. The license is usually not under the name of the establishment, but often the holding company or family name. And doing a text search is problematic, because you must search for exactly what is entered in the database, including any abbreviations, misspellings, etc.

I have found the best and most reliable way to do a search is to use the license number. You can find this info by downloading the county file listing every licensed establishment in your county. There you can easily search and find the exact names, licensees, addresses, and license number.
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KLB
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Re: 51% sign and not TABC licensed

#3

Post by KLB »

oohrah wrote:If the business in fact has a current TABC license, whether BLUE or RED, it has to be in the TABC system. The problem is often difficulty with doing a search. The license is usually not under the name of the establishment, but often the holding company or family name. And doing a text search is problematic, because you must search for exactly what is entered in the database, including any abbreviations, misspellings, etc.

I have found the best and most reliable way to do a search is to use the license number. You can find this info by downloading the county file listing every licensed establishment in your county. There you can easily search and find the exact names, licensees, addresses, and license number.
Your explanation is most likely correct and certainly what we should assume absent proof otherwise. But I have sometimes wondered if improper red signs aren't motivated by a belief that such signs are scarier than 30.06 and 30.07 signs.
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bigtek
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Re: 51% sign and not TABC licensed

#4

Post by bigtek »

KLB wrote:Your explanation is most likely correct and certainly what we should assume absent proof otherwise. But I have sometimes wondered if improper red signs aren't motivated by a belief that such signs are scarier than 30.06 and 30.07 signs.
Could be. If I did my due diligence and was sure it wasn't 51%, I would conceal carry without guilt. However, I would never advise a theoretical LTC student to do the same. I never want to see somebody post on a gun forum "my instructor bigtek said it was legal..."
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Jusme
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Re: 51% sign and not TABC licensed

#5

Post by Jusme »

You can also search the TABC web site by address or even by city. The TABC takes a very dim view of anyone posting TABC signs if they are not a permitted premise. But I agree, before ignoring, or disobeying the signs, make sure they are in violation, so that you are not. If it is in fact incorrectly posted, report it to the TABC, in my experience, they respond pretty quickly to make sure businesses are in compliance.
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G.A. Heath
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Re: 51% sign and not TABC licensed

#6

Post by G.A. Heath »

Alternatively most state licenses that a business uses (TABC included) must be made available for inspection by the public if they wish to see it. If you are willing to go into the business you can inspect their license. Also if the business is not serving alcohol for on premises consumption just let the TABC know about the sign.

One important thing, if they are not licensed to sell alcohol at all then the TABC has no authority over them and the sign becomes a first amendment issue.
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Keith B
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Re: 51% sign and not TABC licensed

#7

Post by Keith B »

Don't always trust the TABC database if you don't find the business listed. It may not be updated for new licensee's or temporary festivals, etc. In those cases, look for their posted license and see if it is BLUE or RED stated on it.
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LabRat
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Re: 51% sign and not TABC licensed

#8

Post by LabRat »

Found this on the TABC website: https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/

TABC:Mobile smartphone app now available
The Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission's new smartphone app, TABC:Mobile is now available for Apple and Android devices. The app allows users to locate TABC-licensed businesses in their area, inspect pending TABC licenses and permits, and report incidents which take place in a licensed establishment. Read more about the mobile app.

TABC:Mobile is TABC's preferred way of securely filing complaints and officially filing breach-of-peace reports quickly and easily. Filing with TABC:Mobile takes just minutes and provides verification of receipt by TABC.

I think I'll download it and see how easy it is to use.

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oohrah
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Re: 51% sign and not TABC licensed

#9

Post by oohrah »

I have the app and it is east to use, and I used it to report an establishment once, and even got a reply from the TABC.

Regarding validity of a 51% sign. IANAL or an LTC Instructor, but as an LTCer, I know it is our responsibility to know the law. Whether a correct sign is posted or not, an establishment with a valid 51% TABC license is prohibited for licensed carry. Any establishment that does not have such a valid 51% license, it doesn't matter whether they post signs or not, they do not affect LTC carry. This is what you should teach your class. (30.06 and 30.07 not withstanding).
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n5wmk
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Re: 51% sign and not TABC licensed

#10

Post by n5wmk »

So this brings me back around to Tupp's Brewery in McKinney. It's a small local brewery that has a bar inside, where they sell their product on tap. My family and I go there fairly often, and Tupp's has a red 51% sign nailed to a post where you walk in. Yesterday, I saw that they have stapled a blue sign on top of (partially covering) the red sign. Trying to cover all bases, I guess. :???:

No 30.06 or 30.07 signs, BTW.

But when I do a TABC search for Tupps, it only shows them as a brewery, with no gun sign indicated. If I reverse search the address to see if there is any other business name that might be operating there, only the same brewery listing comes up.

As a brewery, I'm sure that the TABC visits and is familiar with the alcohol sales there, but I'm curious why nothing shows up as a license to sell alcohol to the public. And it is sales, not free samples, as I can attest to my $70 (including tip) tab for my family and I. They don't cook or serve food there, but there are usually food trucks on site. Not complaining about Tupps, I really like the place, just curious though.


License #: B 898319
Trade Name: TUPPS BREWERY
Owner: TUPPS BREWERY LLC
Location Address:
721 ANDERSON
MCKINNEY , TX 75069
Mailing Address:
721 ANDERSON ST
MCKINNEY , TX 75069
County: Collin Orig. Issue Date: 2/13/2015
Status: Current Exp. Date: 2/12/2019
Wine Percent:
Location Phone No.: 214-704-5039
Subordinates: DA,O
Related To: Gun Sign:
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