Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

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WildBill
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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby WildBill » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:50 am

Liberty wrote:No, its not really your business. It is her right to to be able to protect herself, and her responcibility to make sure he doesn't have access to them if he has been legally denied the right. Its her responsibilty to fill out the forms completely and honestly .

:iagree:
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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby Archery1 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:00 am

Yes, you are the gatekeeper for "that person" who wants to get a LTC. But, applying subjective reasoning in face of the laws to protect rights is a slippery slope. Anti-2A use such subjectivity against rights. Say there's a law allowing you to carry on public property, but the powers that be think because there might also be bad people there, guns should not be allowed around that place. All of sudden, there's a sign that says to keep your gun at home. Well, someone determined that, subjectively, for the greater good, your rights needed trimming because of the actions of others. Same thing. It's her right to take your class independent of others or she doesn't posses a right to carry.
Last edited by Archery1 on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby RossA » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:03 am

txglock21 wrote:
Liberty wrote:No, its not really your business. It is her right to to be able to protect herself, and her responcibility to make sure he doesn't have access to them if he has been legally denied the right. Its her responsibilty to fill out the forms completely and honestly .

:iagree: But, with that said, it is YOUR class. If you don't feel right about it, it's your choice. I don't think it would be the right choice, but that's just my opinion. :tiphat:


Can you give me some law or regulation which allows an instructor to deny someone a class because he "doesn't feel right about it"?
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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby bblhd672 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:10 am

mloamiller wrote:I co-worker of my - a woman - asked to be in one of my LTC classes. I said of course and asked if her husband was interested as well. She kind of hedged and said "He can't get an LTC, so let's leave it at that." She didn't elaborate any further on the why - maybe he has a felony conviction, something else; I have no idea. She might have actually said "he can't own a gun"; I can't remember her exact words as she spoke them rather hesitantly.

My question is, should I find out what the issue is that prevents her husband from getting an LTC, and possibly not allow her in my class because of it?


I'm not an LTC instructor nor have I read any of the materials to be one, but it seems the only questions you should ask is whether or not she can legally own a gun and that she understands her responsibility to keep all guns she owns out of the possession of anyone who is disqualified by law from owning guns.

Every woman in Texas who is qualified should get their LTC and carry daily.
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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby WildBill » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:13 am

RossA wrote:
txglock21 wrote:
Liberty wrote:No, its not really your business. It is her right to to be able to protect herself, and her responcibility to make sure he doesn't have access to them if he has been legally denied the right. Its her responsibilty to fill out the forms completely and honestly .

:iagree: But, with that said, it is YOUR class. If you don't feel right about it, it's your choice. I don't think it would be the right choice, but that's just my opinion. :tiphat:


Can you give me some law or regulation which allows an instructor to deny someone a class because he "doesn't feel right about it"?

There is no law that requires an instructor to accept any student. I think an instructor has a right to decide who they instruction.
In the end it is the DPS, not the instructor who decide whether or not to issue the LTC. In the same light, I have a right to choose who
I take the class from. There are certain instructors who are great and others not so good.
Last edited by WildBill on Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby baseballguy2001 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:17 am

Offering the class shouldn't be an issue, anyone can take the class. She should learn in the class that a felon in possession of a firearm, even by marriage, is a crime. I have had many arguments about this, some think "shall not be infringed" means for felons too. I disagree.
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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:19 am

WildBill wrote:
RossA wrote:
txglock21 wrote:
Liberty wrote:No, its not really your business. It is her right to to be able to protect herself, and her responcibility to make sure he doesn't have access to them if he has been legally denied the right. Its her responsibilty to fill out the forms completely and honestly .

:iagree: But, with that said, it is YOUR class. If you don't feel right about it, it's your choice. I don't think it would be the right choice, but that's just my opinion. :tiphat:


Can you give me some law or regulation which allows an instructor to deny someone a class because he "doesn't feel right about it"?

There is no law that requires an instructor to accept any student.


Unless the student is gay, female, transgender, old, or a member of a minority religion (including atheist), or a minority race.

If the prospective student is a middle age, Christian, White male, then you can tell them to take a hike with no risk of legal issues.
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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby OldCurlyWolf » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:22 am

baseballguy2001 wrote:Offering the class shouldn't be an issue, anyone can take the class. She should learn in the class that a felon in possession of a firearm, even by marriage, is a crime. I have had many arguments about this, some think "shall not be infringed" means for felons too. I disagree.

It did until 1968, the first 192 years since we declared independence.

Also in 1968, when I was 15, I could have walked into the local hardware store and legally purchased any firearm on the rack or ordered one through the mail, until the GCA of 68 kicked in.
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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby WildBill » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:24 am

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
WildBill wrote:
RossA wrote:
txglock21 wrote:
Liberty wrote:No, its not really your business. It is her right to to be able to protect herself, and her responcibility to make sure he doesn't have access to them if he has been legally denied the right. Its her responsibilty to fill out the forms completely and honestly .

:iagree: But, with that said, it is YOUR class. If you don't feel right about it, it's your choice. I don't think it would be the right choice, but that's just my opinion. :tiphat:


Can you give me some law or regulation which allows an instructor to deny someone a class because he "doesn't feel right about it"?

There is no law that requires an instructor to accept any student.


Unless the student is gay, female, transgender, old, or a member of a minority religion (including atheist), or a minority race.

If the prospective student is a middle age, Christian, White male, then you can tell them to take a hike with no risk of legal issues.


I have seen instructors offer woman only classes. They haven't faced any legal issues.
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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby Liberty » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:04 am

There are several reasons her husband could be ineligible for an LTC, having a felony record is only one of many. The husband may be allowed to possess guns but not qualified to get an LTC.

If he is disqualified from being in possession of a weapon because he has a felony record, it doesn't mean his wife is not allowed. She could keep the gun locked up while she isn't physically in possession. She is not barred from having possession, She is only barred from allowing her husband access.

I also believe that as a co-worker she values her privacy. Office gossip is something that she likely wishes to avoid. She has a right to this, and her husbands' issues are none of the instructors business or concern. Her response to the LTC's questioning makes me think that she feels the same way.
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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby baseballguy2001 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:26 am

Liberty wrote:There are several reasons her husband could be ineligible for an LTC, having a felony record is only one of many. The husband may be allowed to possess guns but not qualified to get an LTC.

If he is disqualified from being in possession of a weapon because he has a felony record, it doesn't mean his wife is not allowed. She could keep the gun locked up while she isn't physically in possession. She is not barred from having possession, She is only barred from allowing her husband access.

I also believe that as a co-worker she values her privacy. Office gossip is something that she likely wishes to avoid. She has a right to this, and her husbands' issues are none of the instructors business or concern. Her response to the LTC's questioning makes me think that she feels the same way.


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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:29 am

WildBill wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
WildBill wrote:
RossA wrote:
txglock21 wrote:
Liberty wrote:No, its not really your business. It is her right to to be able to protect herself, and her responcibility to make sure he doesn't have access to them if he has been legally denied the right. Its her responsibilty to fill out the forms completely and honestly .

:iagree: But, with that said, it is YOUR class. If you don't feel right about it, it's your choice. I don't think it would be the right choice, but that's just my opinion. :tiphat:


Can you give me some law or regulation which allows an instructor to deny someone a class because he "doesn't feel right about it"?

There is no law that requires an instructor to accept any student.


Unless the student is gay, female, transgender, old, or a member of a minority religion (including atheist), or a minority race.

If the prospective student is a middle age, Christian, White male, then you can tell them to take a hike with no risk of legal issues.


I have seen instructors offer woman only classes. They haven't faced any legal issues.


So we are in agreement, I believe. After the Pulse nightclub attack, a Houston area gun range offered free LTC classes for gay people. That is also legal. It's fine to restrict or otherwise discriminate against men, straight people, etc. It would only be illegal to offer a men's only class, or free classes to straight people, but charge for anyone who is gay.
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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby rotor » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:35 pm

baseballguy2001 wrote:Offering the class shouldn't be an issue, anyone can take the class. She should learn in the class that a felon in possession of a firearm, even by marriage, is a crime. I have had many arguments about this, some think "shall not be infringed" means for felons too. I disagree.

Is this true? Anyone can take the class? What if one is not eligible to have a firearm? The class does consist of a range test and if one is not eligible to have a firearm how would that be done? I do agree that the woman in this case should be able to apply for her LTC and take the course.

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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby Jusme » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:48 pm

rotor wrote:
baseballguy2001 wrote:Offering the class shouldn't be an issue, anyone can take the class. She should learn in the class that a felon in possession of a firearm, even by marriage, is a crime. I have had many arguments about this, some think "shall not be infringed" means for felons too. I disagree.

Is this true? Anyone can take the class? What if one is not eligible to have a firearm? The class does consist of a range test and if one is not eligible to have a firearm how would that be done? I do agree that the woman in this case should be able to apply for her LTC and take the course.



I never had anyone ask me if I was prohibited from having a gun, when I took my class. Without a background check, or an admission by the student, I can't see how an LTC instructor would know. It is just assumed, that if you show up for a class, with a gun, then you are legal. It would be easy to borrow one from someone, who did not know your background, or have owned it prior to your conviction. Since, people who are criminals, don't have a stellar history of obeying laws, disobeying one more to take an LTC class, would not be too far fetched. However, it, in my opinion, would be a waste of time and money, because, your secret will be out once you apply. As far as I know, DPS has no penalty for instructors who unknowingly teach a class to a prohibited person, but I am not an instructor.

But back on topic, if I were an instructor, I would have no issue teaching the co-worker, in question. Her husband's status, to me would be irrelevant. JMHO
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Re: Husband can't get an LTC; what about wife?

Postby ScottDLS » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:48 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:...
So we are in agreement, I believe. After the Pulse nightclub attack, a Houston area gun range offered free LTC classes for gay people. That is also legal. It's fine to restrict or otherwise discriminate against men, straight people, etc. It would only be illegal to offer a men's only class, or free classes to straight people, but charge for anyone who is gay.


What Texas or Federal law prohibits private discrimination against homosexuals? I'm not saying it's right, but I'm not aware of a law prohibiting such discrimination in private businesses.
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