Instructor recertification class

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troglodyte
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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby troglodyte » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:36 pm

jmorris wrote:Don't know why I didn't have this in my notes but it also seemed that ST Pittman stated that no exemption for school employees having firearms in their vehicles in the school parking lot had passed. As I understand it, there was an amendment to SB 1566 authorizing the transportation and storage of a handgun or other firearm and ammunition by a license holder in a motor vehicle in a parking area of a primary or secondary school.

So, I either misunderstood ST Pittman or misunderstanding the amendment.


I must have missed this. I heard him say something about a bill didn't pass but we could t hear some of the questions on our end.


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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby AF-Odin » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:57 pm

Just finished the Wednesday morning class. Only had 79 folks in the session, a far cry from the overflow Monday class. Most seemed to be somewhat local (San Antonio to Waco), but one from El Paso and a couple from Amarillo. May have been many other areas, but I did not talk with them.

Earlier post was correct, 1 hour of information crammed into 4 hours (about). Folks from RSD were helpful, courteous, and professional. Trooper teaching today was one of the firearms instructors from Florence and a good guy.

The two most interesting questions were: #1 Can you use a .22 Pellet Pistol? Answer NO. and #2 Can you use a pistol with a suppressor to qualify? Answer NO

Was good chatting with other instructors, but the amount and depth of information covered made it seem like this was a "just going through the motions" training session. Really nothing new that has not already been covered on this forum. Hopefully after 1 Sep when fees go down will start seeing some more students.

Best continuing education for instructors is to stay actively reading and posting in this forum. :tiphat:
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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby jamcgowan » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:14 pm

I too was in the first class on 8-14-2017.

LET ME STATE CATEGORICALLY THAT I TRULY APPRECIATE EVERYONE AT DPS! I HOLD THEM IN THE HIGHEST REGARD, SO MUCH SO THAT I HESITATED TO COMMENT ON THIS THREAD. :tiphat:

They have a very difficult job, however, while that is true, it is also true that the level of preparedness for my class was, shall we say, greatly lacking. We are expected to be professional and prepared when we teach our students. The same expectations should apply to DPS's educational training classes for the LTC instructor community.

If I had shown up for one of my LTC classes as unprepared as the onsite DPS team was, I would likely never get a student again. Not knowing how to set up a ppt projector properly (ie. Keystone settings), and using screens that were so small that they were extremely difficult to read, are just unacceptable in my mind. This was an instructor's class and should have reflected that. I felt like we were utilized as guinea pigs for the classes scheduled after ours. I understand that the classes should improve the more they are taught, but this was a very disappointing experience for me.

In the first half of the class, the self identified, "Senior" supervisor, was clearly not prepared, in fact, if I heard, 'we don't know' once, I heard it 50 times. At times he even came across to me as frustrated and wishing he were somewhere else. Now I realize that that is merely my impression, but I was not the only one that felt this way. As has been mentioned by others, this class was, for me, frankly a waste of time.

By that I mean that they took about 1.5 hours worth of material and tried to stretch it into 4. Don't get me wrong, I like anecdotal stories from time to time, when and where appropriate, but over use of them to 'fill out' the time is a waste of everyone's time, IMHO. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, everything that was covered could have been addressed with the instructor community, 'without' having to go to Georgetown this time around.

Fortunately, I only had to come from the Houston area. If I had had to drive from some of the farther reaches of Texas, I would have been extremely aggravated. As it is, I like many, still had the expense of a hotel room, time off from work, and the incidentals involved with driving to Georgetown.

Again, I truly appreciate the DPS team and wish them the best. I know that they are in a difficult position trying to implement the legislative changes. I can only hope that in the future, they will learn from this experience and do a better job in the renewal classes.
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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby RossA » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:59 pm

Heading up tomorrow morning for the afternoon class. Hope to get some clarification on the school teacher issue with guns in cars on campus.
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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby mloamiller » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:26 pm

jamcgowan wrote:I too was in the first class on 8-14-2017.

LET ME STATE CATEGORICALLY THAT I TRULY APPRECIATE EVERYONE AT DPS! I HOLD THEM IN THE HIGHEST REGARD, SO MUCH SO THAT I HESITATED TO COMMENT ON THIS THREAD. :tiphat:

They have a very difficult job, however, while that is true, it is also true that the level of preparedness for my class was, shall we say, greatly lacking. We are expected to be professional and prepared when we teach our students. The same expectations should apply to DPS's educational training classes for the LTC instructor community.

If I had shown up for one of my LTC classes as unprepared as the onsite DPS team was, I would likely never get a student again. Not knowing how to set up a ppt projector properly (ie. Keystone settings), and using screens that were so small that they were extremely difficult to read, are just unacceptable in my mind. This was an instructor's class and should have reflected that. I felt like we were utilized as guinea pigs for the classes scheduled after ours. I understand that the classes should improve the more they are taught, but this was a very disappointing experience for me.

In the first half of the class, the self identified, "Senior" supervisor, was clearly not prepared, in fact, if I heard, 'we don't know' once, I heard it 50 times. At times he even came across to me as frustrated and wishing he were somewhere else. Now I realize that that is merely my impression, but I was not the only one that felt this way. As has been mentioned by others, this class was, for me, frankly a waste of time.

By that I mean that they took about 1.5 hours worth of material and tried to stretch it into 4. Don't get me wrong, I like anecdotal stories from time to time, when and where appropriate, but over use of them to 'fill out' the time is a waste of everyone's time, IMHO. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, everything that was covered could have been addressed with the instructor community, 'without' having to go to Georgetown this time around.

Fortunately, I only had to come from the Houston area. If I had had to drive from some of the farther reaches of Texas, I would have been extremely aggravated. As it is, I like many, still had the expense of a hotel room, time off from work, and the incidentals involved with driving to Georgetown.

Again, I truly appreciate the DPS team and wish them the best. I know that they are in a difficult position trying to implement the legislative changes. I can only hope that in the future, they will learn from this experience and do a better job in the renewal classes.


I was in the Tuesday afternoon class and share many of the same sentiments. I can certainly understand not having all of the answers on how new legislation will be implemented. I also appreciate the RSD's staff willingness to be honest and say they didn't have all of the answers. However, I still fail to understand why there was a need for a class in the first place. The update from RSD could easily have been done via email. The rest of the information that was presented was a subset of what I just presented to my own class this past weekend. And with all due respect to the trooper who presented it, it was not presented well.

I wonder if there is something in the government code that requires all instructors to attend an actual class every two years, so something was thrown together to fulfill that requirement. That's the only way I can make sense of why this was done; there was absolutely no value in giving up a vacation day to drive to Georgetown from DFW.

Hopefully, now that an online LTC class is supposed to be available next year, they will also make these renewal classes available on-line.
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infoman
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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby infoman » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:31 pm

I believe it's required to come to an in person class every other renewal. So, when 2nd half of 2019 comes around, there won't be an in person renewal class.(just an online exam) But, there will be one again in 2021. (I'm not 100% certain, but this is my understanding, I think it's Admin code 6.46)

1st part of class is admin stuff- record keeping, CHL-8's, CHL-100's, general contact info, new online course info (but don't know much yet), new fee reduction, losing caliber requirement for students, new opt in form, submitting docs...

Then you take 20 min break, a tall guy from eligibility is there to take eligibility related questions. He helped me with a few during the break.

Then 2nd part of class is a trooper going over signs, off limit carry places, safe storage, gun safety, etc..

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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby Scott B. » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:01 pm

Might be interesting if people will continue to post class sizes by date, and morning or afternoon class.

I'll be at this Thursday's afternoon class.
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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby PBratton » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:11 pm

Scott B. wrote:Might be interesting if people will continue to post class sizes by date, and morning or afternoon class.

I'll be at this Thursday's afternoon class.


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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby KC5AV » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:22 pm

jamcgowan wrote:I too was in the first class on 8-14-2017.

LET ME STATE CATEGORICALLY THAT I TRULY APPRECIATE EVERYONE AT DPS! I HOLD THEM IN THE HIGHEST REGARD, SO MUCH SO THAT I HESITATED TO COMMENT ON THIS THREAD. :tiphat:

If I had shown up for one of my LTC classes as unprepared as the onsite DPS team was, I would likely never get a student again. Not knowing how to set up a ppt projector properly (ie. Keystone settings), and using screens that were so small that they were extremely difficult to read, are just unacceptable in my mind. This was an instructor's class and should have reflected that. I felt like we were utilized as guinea pigs for the classes scheduled after ours. I understand that the classes should improve the more they are taught, but this was a very disappointing experience for me.

In the first half of the class, the self identified, "Senior" supervisor, was clearly not prepared, in fact, if I heard, 'we don't know' once, I heard it 50 times. At times he even came across to me as frustrated and wishing he were somewhere else. Now I realize that that is merely my impression, but I was not the only one that felt this way. As has been mentioned by others, this class was, for me, frankly a waste of time.

By that I mean that they took about 1.5 hours worth of material and tried to stretch it into 4. Don't get me wrong, I like anecdotal stories from time to time, when and where appropriate, but over use of them to 'fill out' the time is a waste of everyone's time, IMHO. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, everything that was covered could have been addressed with the instructor community, 'without' having to go to Georgetown this time around.

Fortunately, I only had to come from the Houston area. If I had had to drive from some of the farther reaches of Texas, I would have been extremely aggravated. As it is, I like many, still had the expense of a hotel room, time off from work, and the incidentals involved with driving to Georgetown.

Again, I truly appreciate the DPS team and wish them the best. I know that they are in a difficult position trying to implement the legislative changes. I can only hope that in the future, they will learn from this experience and do a better job in the renewal classes.


In their defense (and mine a little, since I was up there trying to help them with setup), the folks in charge of the community center wouldn't allow DPS in on Sunday afternoon to set stuff up, so they were quite pressed for time. Sure, the screens were too small, but you had the slides right in front of you, so that wasn't too much of a distraction.
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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby howdy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:45 pm

Wednesday afternoon class had LOTS of empty seats at the tables. I would guess half full.
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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby Mike S » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:24 am

AF-Odin wrote:The two most interesting questions were: #1 Can you use a .22 Pellet Pistol? Answer NO. and #2 Can you use a pistol with a suppressor to qualify? Answer NO:


I heard this question & answer, but couldn't see who gave the answer. Was it one of the representatives from RSD, or a fellow instructor in the audience? The two RSD reps who were standing up answering questions stated they had never come across that before & would need to look into it; I thought the answer that "it's not allowed, I've looked it up" came from the audience. (During the dissertation about gun buster signs I looked at the Admin Rules, which prohibits optically enhacing devices, but not suppressors). If anyone can cite where it's prohibited I'd be interested.

Of other note, the Admin Rules were updated in March/April. A student is now limited to 3x attempts at the written, & 3x attempts at the range proficiency, WITHIN A 12 MONTH PERIOD. For instructors, we only have 2x attempts (I stumble across the instructor portion while looking through the Admin Rules while looking for the suppressor question).
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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby Greybeard » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:11 am

70something in the class I attended Wednesday afternoon. Mostly Death by Power Point on 20 year old stuff.
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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby AF-Odin » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:45 am

Mike S.

The answer came from one of the ladies from RSD that was sitting in the back row area. She spent some amount of time apparently researching and gave her answer to the gentleman who asked the question. Question was asked by the guy sitting next to me. Personally, never had a student want to use one and I am too cheap to buy one for myself. If the "Hearing Protection Act" passes and they are no longer an NFA item (and prices go down) will have to jump in.
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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby jamcgowan » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:29 pm

KC5AV wrote:In their defense (and mine a little, since I was up there trying to help them with setup), the folks in charge of the community center wouldn't allow DPS in on Sunday afternoon to set stuff up, so they were quite pressed for time. Sure, the screens were too small, but you had the slides right in front of you, so that wasn't too much of a distraction.


Thanks for your comments, they and you are appreciated for your efforts. Nevertheless, I wonder if you or I would be able to use that as an excuse for lack of preparedness for a scheduled LTC class? It speaks to professionalism in my mind, but again, I am not intending to offend or point fingers...just sharing what I and others felt.

It's all good...
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Re: Instructor recertification class

Postby Crossfire » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:29 pm

jamcgowan wrote:Thanks for your comments, they and you are appreciated for your efforts. Nevertheless, I wonder if you or I would be able to use that as an excuse for lack of preparedness for a scheduled LTC class? It speaks to professionalism in my mind, but again, I am not intending to offend or point fingers...just sharing what I and others felt.

It's all good...

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