Opinions on AR- or AK-format Semiauto Shotguns?

[Rafe]

I admit it. I don't own a semiauto shotty. Have wanted a nice Benelli M4, but never enough fork out a couple of grand. Besides, I'm comfortable with my pump shotguns and am not anxious to add a new manual-of-arms to that. But...I am comfortable with AR and AK platforms.

And I've been seeing more and more models being advertised. I shot a Saiga years ago, and was not terribly impressed; not enough to make me rush out and buy one. But I saw part of a multigun match on Outdoor Channel last week, and a number of the competitors were using them--seemingly mostly AR-12s--and I saw one with a honkin' long magazine that spoke of maybe 20 rounds.

Reviews seem to be mixed. One rundown I found from last March was at AmericanFirearms.org: https://www.americanfirearms.org/best-ar12-shotguns/.

Anybody run any AR- or AK-format shotguns and have any pros and cons to offer? I figure it may be time to think about picking one up before the dollar is worth about 75 cents...

[clarionite]

I haven't shot either, but have been wanting to pick up a Kel-tec KSG and an AR12. They had both at a local gun shop. They were both right at the upper limit of what I was wanting to spend at the time. I went home, thought about it and OK'd the purchase with the boss. Went back two days later and they were both gone. Should have jumped on it when I had the chance. I've seen one KSG since and it was at twice the price I saw the prior one at. Haven't seen an AR12 since.

[clarionite]

I did however find a TS12. But it was pricy and I'm not sure if I'm wanting something in that form factor.

https://iwi.us/product/tavor-ts12/

[Mike S]

I don't own any, and I've only had a single one come through my defensive shotgun classes. A gentleman brought a VEPR-12 (AK patterned 12 ga), & if I recall correctly it ran fine. It was a bit bulky, but I'd imagine any of these type shotguns would be.

I don't recall if his safety selector was on the side like a normal AK-style, or if it was the ambidextrous safety that some VEPRs seem to come with now. A side selector would be a deal breaker for me personally.

However, VEPRs may not be readily available now due to the import ban on Russian stuff, & I'm really not willing to part with several $k for a niche shotgun.

I think Palmetto State Armory had a clearance sale on a domestically made AK patterned 12 ga several months ago, in the range of $300. I thought about picking one up then, but used that money to buy a case of ammo instead... Life's full of choices...

Correction:
It was an AR-12 shotgun. Still in stock, & still on clearance. No idea of quality though, & some of the 1- & 2- star reviews aught to be taken into consideration:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/g-force ... 5655103810

[Rafe]

Yeah, that the reviews are generally mixed are what troubles me. If the issues are purely that of the ammo, I figure I can handle that...just might take a while to find what it really likes to eat. But I see comments about near-impossible field stripping, barrel or parts problems, non-functional magazines. I figure three-gunners/multigunners wouldn't be using something that was a jam-o-matic...but I also don't want to pay a boatload for one. I figure my limit would be in the $800 to $900 dollar range; for a mag-fed gun you then also have to buy a bunch of mags.

The concept of an AR-12 type shotgun is appealing to me. I just don't know if I'd be throwing my money away for an experiment.

[The Annoyed Man]

Ok…here’s where I give expression to my inner Fudd and play devil's advocate.

I thought about getting one of those a long time ago, but then went a more traditional route with a Mossberg 930 SPX Tactical. The only real advantage I can see to AR/AK-pattern shotguns is the potential for faster reloads. I say "potential", because it seems like the large, heavy, and bulky magazines make for plenty of opportunity for buggering up a reload. OTH, there’s no topping off a magazine tube with single rounds, and there’s no switching up ammo types mid-stride (i.e. buck > slugs, etc.) by single-loading them as needed, as one can do with any tube-fed shotgun.

Then, there’s capacity… what do you gain? It seems like most of these shotguns come with 10-round mags. I’ve seen the larger than 10-round capacity mags, but they’re gigantic and heavy. Are they really a tactical advantage? My SPX has a 7-round tube, but make it 8 if I ghost-load a round onto the lifter. That’s only 2 fewer than one of those AR/AK-pattern guns, and I can single-feed 2 more as needed.

Then what about mechanical complexity/reliability? When I compare the inner workings of my 930 semiauto to my 590 pump, it seems even more dirt simple than the pump action seems. What is the primary enemy of shotgun actions? I’d say it’s dirt. Shotguns run dirty. It’s just the nature of the beast. And the more complicated the action, the more opportunities there are for crud to hide where it can gum up the works. There are things you can do to mitigate that, but the fact that it needs to even be mitigated means added expense and or attention to detail. I got around it with my 930 by installing marine spacer tube from or3gun.com, that keeps moisture and carbon fouling from binding up the spacer. My Benelli gets around the problem with its inertial system, but it doesn’t reliably feed 2-3/4" shells of #7.5 birdshot…not enough poop to reliably cycle the action.

So that was my inner Fudd. Hey, if you want one of those AR/AK-type semiauto shotguns, by all means get you one. I’m just explaining why I consciously decided against it.

[Rafe]

Ok…here’s where I give expression to my inner Fudd and play devil's advocate.

I thought about getting one of those a long time ago, but then went a more traditional route with a Mossberg 930 SPX Tactical. The only real advantage I can see to AR/AK-pattern shotguns is the potential for faster reloads. I say "potential", because it seems like the large, heavy, and bulky magazines make for plenty of opportunity for buggering up a reload. OTH, there’s no topping off a magazine tube with single rounds, and there’s no switching up ammo types mid-stride (i.e. buck > slugs, etc.) by single-loading them as needed, as one can do with any tube-fed shotgun.

Then, there’s capacity… what do you gain? It seems like most of these shotguns come with 10-round mags. I’ve seen the larger than 10-round capacity mags, but they’re gigantic and heavy. Are they really a tactical advantage? My SPX has a 7-round tube, but make it 8 if I ghost-load a round onto the lifter. That’s only 2 fewer than one of those AR/AK-pattern guns, and I can single-feed 2 more as needed.

Then what about mechanical complexity/reliability? When I compare the inner workings of my 930 semiauto to my 590 pump, it seems even more dirt simple than the pump action seems. What is the primary enemy of shotgun actions? I’d say it’s dirt. Shotguns run dirty. It’s just the nature of the beast. And the more complicated the action, the more opportunities there are for crud to hide where it can gum up the works. There are things you can do to mitigate that, but the fact that it needs to even be mitigated means added expense and or attention to detail. I got around it with my 930 by installing marine spacer tube from or3gun.com, that keeps moisture and carbon fouling from binding up the spacer. My Benelli gets around the problem with its inertial system, but it doesn’t reliably feed 2-3/4" shells of #7.5 birdshot…not enough poop to reliably cycle the action.

So that was my inner Fudd. Hey, if you want one of those AR/AK-type semiauto shotguns, by all means get you one. I’m just explaining why I consciously decided against it.

The Annoyed One makes stellar points. My go-to shotgun is a Remington 870 Tactical, that particular model made only in 2006. Ghost ring front, Knoxx stock, 18" barrel, and 6 in the tube. I have a side-saddle with four shells on the stock and, yep, keep slugs in that for any required swap-ins (if someone has a saddle, you can get a quick idea if they know what they're doing based on whether the shells are brass up or brass down).

I keep shotguns cruiser ready, so 6 is the full load on the 870. I don't have any other pumps with a larger capacity.

I'm afraid I'm leaning toward "tacticool" and may need to straighten myself up. You know, be more of a moderate. While I may want to shoot some three-gun again in the future, I still would never be doing it for the sake of placing high in a competition. I ain't good enough on any front for that, and in the past I've limped along with the 870 well enough, barely, to not be uninvited from a match.

So do I really need a magazine full of so many shotshells that I could do concentration curls with it? And considering the techniques for shell swap-ins, is managing to learn handling a semiauto charger that much different? (You're correct-handed, so I'm only speaking as a right-hander and a starboard side charger.)

Pending other replies here, you may have sold me on the Mossy. I have absolutely no comment on the shorts that James Reeves is wearing in this review of the 940 SPX Tactical. Just sayin'. Interestingly, one of the commenters said that the "improvements Mossberg did are suspiciously similar to OR3GUN replacement parts for the 930."



The 940 looks like it might come in roughly in my intended budget...and I wouldn't have to buy extra magazines so I could get a Holosun to slap on top of it.

I've got some thinkin' to do...

[NotRPB]

FOR AR STYLE SHOTGUNS
I'D ADVISE LOOK FOR MKA 1919 AR12 MAGAZINE COMPATIBLE
AR STYLE 12 GA SHOTGUNS
BUD'S HAS SEVERAL $200-$500 RANGE
12GA MKA 1919 AR12 MAGS/DRUMS CAN BE FOUND FROM 2 OR 3ROUNDS FOR MIGRATORY BIRD HUNTING TO5/10/15/20/AND 28 ROUNDS

IF MORE WEIGHT REDUCES RECOIL / YOUR SHOULDER SHOULDN'T HURT WITH A 28 ROUND 12 GA lol YeahRight

[Rafe]

So that's what those monsters were I saw in the clip of that multi-gun match, 28-rounders. That doesn't look ungainly at all for home defense. What would really be hilarious is if someone made a belt-carry mag holder for them.

But, yeah; I knew there were AR-12 magazine compatibility considerations, but I hadn't got that far in researching them. The big thing for me was if the platform (or its AK cousins) was worth considering at all. And I gotta admit that since TAM brought up the Mossy, that 940 SPX Tactical has kept my attention. Seems like the street price is still pretty close to MSRP, though.

[PUCKER]

I've got a Citadel BR99 12 ga. The pic shows it with the 10 round mag. I have yet to shoot it, I have cycled it / tested for function though. Hope to shoot it someday soon.

[Rafe]

I've got a Citadel BR99 12 ga. The pic shows it with the 10 round mag. I have yet to shoot it, I have cycled it / tested for function though. Hope to shoot it someday soon.

The 10-rounder isn't tiny by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems reasonably manageable and swappable. You could use the 28-rounder as a small boat anchor.

Is that a light/laser combo on the fore-end or light only?

Hope the weather lets you get to range soon, feed that BR99 a bunch of shells, and let us know how it does.

[PUCKER]

I've got a Citadel BR99 12 ga. The pic shows it with the 10 round mag. I have yet to shoot it, I have cycled it / tested for function though. Hope to shoot it someday soon.

The 10-rounder isn't tiny by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems reasonably manageable and swappable. You could use the 28-rounder as a small boat anchor.

Is that a light/laser combo on the fore-end or light only?

Hope the weather lets you get to range soon, feed that BR99 a bunch of shells, and let us know how it does.

Yeah, the 10-rounder is pretty substantial as it is. It’s just a light, an Inforce. I’ve got a BUNCH of new hardware to shoot, adding to the list tomorrow with a new Colt Anaconda! Looking forward to hitting the range, soon! Will report back!

[NotRPB]

28 ROUND MAG is wacko ungainly cumbersome awkward for most any practical use other than saying you have one & taking to a range for fun to show friends that you actually bought one maybe
the 15 and 20 round drums are shorter & should be much less cumbersome or easier to use for home defense
Besides Bud's, ClassicFirearms & other places sell the MKA1919 AR12 compatible AR style shotguns like Escort & others

[PUCKER]

I've got a Citadel BR99 12 ga. The pic shows it with the 10 round mag. I have yet to shoot it, I have cycled it / tested for function though. Hope to shoot it someday soon.

The 10-rounder isn't tiny by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems reasonably manageable and swappable. You could use the 28-rounder as a small boat anchor.

Is that a light/laser combo on the fore-end or light only?

Hope the weather lets you get to range soon, feed that BR99 a bunch of shells, and let us know how it does.

Yeah, the 10-rounder is pretty substantial as it is. It’s just a light, an Inforce. I’ve got a BUNCH of new hardware to shoot, adding to the list tomorrow with a new Colt Anaconda! Looking forward to hitting the range, soon! Will report back!

I shot a few mags (both 5- and 10-rounders) through the Citadel BR99 a few weekends ago...WOW!! It packs a PUNCH!!! I was shooting OO Buck and the target was an old washer...let's just say the washer was not usable after... LOL