Liberty Safe backdoor access

[rtschl]

Liberty Safe posted this on Twitter yesterday and turned off replies as they are being roasted by 2A community and calling them the Bud Light of the 2A industry. Interesting if this destroys their business.

I would think that their policy could be that they as a company have to be served a warrant specifically ordering them to grant access to a specific safe before they would provide a back door code, not just notified of a search warrant of a property. But I'm not a lawyer and do not know if they could push back. I want to be fair to them if they had no choice.

Should safes have a backdoor code? Should buyers be able to disable it? It's a risk if you ever loose your code or the electronics die and have to be replaced.

[RoyGBiv]

Their policy should be that no backdoor access exists whatsoever... You lose your keys/codes... hire a locksmith. Then when Uncle Sugar comes calling they can rightly tell him to pound sand.

[rtschl]

Secureit Gun Storage has come out with a statement. I don't think they sell fireproof/resistant safes, but more secured locker type design. Per their statement, there is no override built in.

[Grayling813]

Liberty believes in liberty until .gov comes around with a warrant. Don't buy safes with electronics, then there is no back door.

[Excaliber]

While it's possible there is a "backdoor code" that was used in this instance, that may not be the case.

Liberty may simply have given the FBI the same initial combination they provided to the owner by looking up their own records.

If there is no back door code in the safes, the simple solution is to change the code from the issued one to a new one known only to you.

[FrogFan]

I have a Sports Afield safe that I bought from Academy about a year ago. I don't know for sure, but I think it's made by Liberty. My safe comes with two physical keys that can be used to open it if you forget the combination. There are procedures to follow to get a new physical key if you ever lose yours. Mine is an electronic safe; I'm not sure if there is a "backdoor" access. I changed the electronic combination from the default combination that came with it.

I can't find anything online but I wonder what would happen if Uncle Sugar happened by, presented a warrant, and requested a physical key to my safe. I'm guessing he'd get one.

I had the opportunity to buy a purely mechanical safe but I opted for the one I bought because it was a little bigger. I hope I don't regret that decision.

[powerboatr]

mine i purchased from tractor supply its a winchester..not sure who makes it.
it has a key and an electronic dial thingy
i too changed the code and locked the key in the other safe
which is also a electronic pad and or key
the second safe...you would never find because its not in sight and no where anyone ever goes in my house


i figure if i become a criminal
i would not keep illegal stuff in either one
i reserve that spot for a secret spot under my neighbors mobile home

but yes a warrant is a requirement in our current system

[rtschl]

Liberty Safe just posted about 30 minutes ago to Twitter the following statement. They will give safe owners the ability to have the "backdoor" code erased from their records.

[RoyGBiv]

It's much worse than it seems....

[Grayling813]

Did Liberty Gun Safe Betray Their Customers?
https://www.captainsjournal.com/2023/09 ... customers/

[philip964]

I saw today in the news and said this must be what that thread is about. I had no idea a safe had a back door.

Shameful.

[rtschl]

The ownership of Liberty Safe since 2021 by a left leaning corporation that donates to anti 2A candidates and organizations is going to cost them more. Why would anyone supporting the Second Amendment give money to a company that will then turn and give a portion of your money to try and dismantle those rights. I do not recall the 2A community being aware of this two years ago.

The second issue, is that they need to give the option to not only have the master code removed from their records, but the the owner should get the master code before Liberty removes it from their records. Any and all codes should belong to the owner. I get the desire to be able to call the company if owner gets locked out of their safe or if a family is locked out when a loved one dies. But if the owner has the master as well as the one they created, that solves the problem - if it is saved somewhere safe (no pun intended).

I am glad they will now require a court order before complying as that is a step in the right direction. But their political donations would prohibit me from buying a safe from them.

[Excaliber]

Was the back door code given to the FBI unique to that customer's safe, or does the FBI now have back door access to every Liberty safe in the country?

If the existence of that code was not disclosed at time of purchase, I foresee a massive class action lawsuit to have Liberty fund the replacement of every lock with that characteristic with one that doesn't have that vulnerability.

[Grayling813]

Was the back door code given to the FBI unique to that customer's safe, or does the FBI now have back door access to every Liberty safe in the country?

If the existence of that code was not disclosed at time of purchase, I foresee a massive class action lawsuit to have Liberty fund the replacement of every lock with that characteristic with one that doesn't have that vulnerability.

Liberty seems to say that each safe code is unique. By entering "99999" the safe then provides a code which you give to Liberty and then they tell you the code for that safe. Now whether that is true depends upon your trust level of Liberty safes at this point.

[Rafe]

Video by Washington Gun Law President, William Kirk, indicates that what Liberty Safe did isn't illegal, but what he doesn't address is whether it was incumbent on the company, either legally or ethically, to clearly explain this policy up-front to consumers. He also notes that, "The warrant is served on this individual and his residence. It's one thing if they come with a warrant that's actually for Liberty Safe; it's one thing if they come with another type of court order, what we sometimes call a subpoena duces tecum, and requires by a court order for Liberty Safe to directly disclose that information...well that's a whole other story." But what they did is a company policy, not a legal requirement based solely on the search warrant that was in effect.