Victim Learns How To Shoot Gun Before Attackers Paroled (OH)

[Paladin]

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/9746774/detail.html

"Victim Learns How To Shoot Gun Before Attackers Paroled

POSTED: 9:48 am EDT August 28, 2006

HAMILTON, Ohio -- A woman who was repeatedly raped 23 years ago has learned self-defense and how to shoot a gun in case two of her attackers return to her town when they're paroled on Monday.

"If it's me or them, it's not going to be me anymore," said Cathy Lindsey. "I would not hesitate for a minute to protect my life."

At the time of the attack, Lindsey was a 24-year-old divorced mother of three, working part time and attending college.

"I thought I was doing well," she said. "Then my life was shattered."

Three men broke into her Middletown home, tied her up and held a gun to her head and raped her repeatedly. They made her beg for her life and for the safety of her children, who were in another room, and forced her to say over and over that she would not tell police.

When they finally left, Lindsey drove to a hospital and ignored the men's threats to kill her. She identified two attackers, and later picked the third from a police lineup. They had been so bold -- or so inept -- that they took turns wearing a single pillowcase over their heads, Lindsey said.

All three men denied any involvement, but police found their fingerprints in Lindsey's apartment and found the gun, pillowcase and clothesline used to bind her hands in the home of Richard Reed Jr., who lived across the street.

Reed, 53, and Robert Hogsten, 49, are being released Monday, after serving all but five years of their sentences on rape convictions. In exchange for their guilty pleas, prosecutors dropped charges of aggravated burglary and aggravated robbery.

Hogsten said last week he did not plan to return "so I don't have to be around the victim, so the victim does feel better."

Reed's family expects him to return to the area. He has a son in nearby Monroe.

"He just wants to spend time with his family and see his grandchildren," Richard Reed III recently told The Middletown Journal.

Lindsey dreads the possibility that either man could live near her home in Middletown. Both have been declared sexual predators, Reed during a February hearing and Hogsten last week during a hearing here in Butler County Common Pleas Court, which Lindsey attended.

"They're arrogant and violent and they can think of only one thing -- revenge," Lindsey said. "I feel like a walking target. I walk down the street like I've got a bull's eye on me."

The third man convicted in the attack is Hogsten's brother, Edward Hogsten, 50. He did not take a plea bargain, was convicted of rape, aggravated burglary and aggravated robbery and was sentenced to 28 to 68 years in prison. He will be eligible for parole in 2011.

Lindsey, a licensed practical nurse, said she has nightmares about being attacked by the men again. She does not leave her house alone and depends on her husband to drive her to and from work.

Dana Gilbert, assistant director of the Rape Crisis & Abuse Center in Cincinnati, said Lindsey's fears are understandable, even after so many years. Counselors generally urge victims to seek protective orders and support groups, but learning self-defense techniques also can be helpful, she said.

"If they would feel more comfortable knowing how to defend themselves, that is certainly something that would make them feel empowered," Gilbert said. "I would hate to see a confrontation, but if someone feels safer and more empowered, that's good."

Lindsey and her husband, Michael, filed for protective orders to be served on Reed and Hogsten before their release, and have applied for permits to carry concealed weapons. Michael, a prison guard and Army veteran, has helped teach his wife to shoot.

Her preference is a snub-nosed revolver, but she also can handle his .45-caliber automatic, her husband said.

"She's not looking forward to that time, but she's prepared," he said. "I think she can pull the trigger, absolutely. Hopefully, she'll never have to find out."

Middletown City Manager Bill Becker, a former police officers who was one of the detectives investigating the case 23 years ago, said he never was a fan of concealed carry laws.

"But it's certainly Cathy's right, if she feels the need, and in this particular case, I wouldn't blame her," he said.

Although Lindsey says she hates being so afraid and dreads the public hearings that dredge up memories of her rape, her husband believes that talking about it so openly is also cathartic.

"Every time, she gets a little stronger," he said. "

[cyphur]

"....Middletown City Manager Bill Becker, a former police officers who was one of the detectives investigating the case 23 years ago, said he never was a fan of concealed carry laws.

"But it's certainly Cathy's right, if she feels the need, and in this particular case, I wouldn't blame her," he said....."

Its unfortunate fear and mistrust consumes his opinion on this matter.

Or maybe he'd prefer open carry?

[longtooth]

He does not blame her after the fact, but does not want her to have one before the fact. Where is there any since in a statement like that?
It is not OK to defend ones self against a 1st rape, but is "understandable" to defend against a second.

[Paladin]

He does not blame her after the fact, but does not want her to have one before the fact. Where is there any since in a statement like that?
It is not OK to defend ones self against a 1st rape, but is "understandable" to defend against a second.

LT, thanks for putting my feelings into words! I was feeling like my head was beating against a wall but couldn't put into words why.

[Venus Pax]

I get really aggravated w/ people who tell me I'm paranoid.
It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you. And sex offenders really are out to get people. I'd rather not go through that if I can in any way avoid it.
ETA: I'm glad she's doing this. It's both empowering and practical.

[longtooth]

Paladin, We as pieceful law abiding citizens have spent our lives in right thinking. We many times hear something & know that is not right, but cannot articulate what is wrong.
Another point of same bad thinking.
The social worker, Dana Gilbert, also said, "she would hate to see a confrontation but if someone feels safer & more empowered, that's good."
From her statement, the no confrontation is the responsibility of the victim not the assailant. This social worker has suggested that she first throw paper wads at the rapist to keep him from raping again or gaining revenge some other way.
If 20 yr in prison, & the law against rape & the sentence against revenge does not keep him away then 5 sheets of paper will not either, no matter what is written on them. I have actually seen one throw them on the ground & never seen anyone read them, on the few times I have been present for the serving. No doubt you LEs have seen it hundreds of times.
I spent 30+yrs counselling victims. Not as many as she I am sure. This counsellor tells her in session, & the discussion will go something like this:
"This was not your fault. You did not cause this.
Yes Maam. This was not my fault. I did not cause this.
As she pays big bucks & leaves the counselling session.
Now if he returns try not to confront him.
She tore down everything she accomplished in session.
Ladies & gentlemen there is no doubt in my mind why this lady still has to have someone drive here to work. She too is not able to articulate this, but she still knows in her spirit that no one has done anything wrong until SHE CONFRONTS HIM. No one in this article has said to the rapist, dont confront her!!!

Here is what I teach victims that fear retaliation whether it is domestic violence or revenge for testimony.
LE or Councellor that rejects self defense for calling the police: Get the restraining order/portective order. Call the police & don't confront him.
victim: You personally go tell him to stay away from me. I have not confronted him. You go tell him & make him not confront me.
LE/councellor...: We can't be with him every where all the time.
victim: You cant be w/ me & you can't be with him but you tell me not to confront him. Go tell him not to confront me. If he does I will defend myself immediately.
Don't take the law into your own hands. I don't I am not going after him. When he confronts me that is self defense not TAKING THE LAW INTO MY HANDS. He is taking the law into his own hand & throwing it away. Go tell him to obey the law. I am obeying the law by staying away. I am defending myself at his confrontation not TAKING THE LAW INTO MY OWN HANDS.
This is a lengthy process & has to be practiced over & over so it will be the response when the Q. is asked. So it will be the understanding in the heart of the victim.
Sounds like mental training & it is.

[kw5kw]

… <snip>
If 20 yr in prison, & the law against rape & the sentence against revenge does not keep him away then 5 sheets of paper will not either, no matter what is written on them.

In some cases, especially the harder cases, the twenty years only provide that much time to stew, to gather more and more hatred. Each passing moment just puts another piece of coal on the fire and now it has become a raging volcano on the verge of erupting much like Mt. St. Helens. However, the person is sane—they act cool, calm and collected but inside they are cold and calculating. They know if they show their anger they won’t be paroled, then their revenge would have to wait that much longer.

… I have actually seen one throw them on the ground & never seen anyone read them, on the few times I have been present for the serving. No doubt you LEs have seen it hundreds of times.

They all know what is written on it, they know that the police will not be able to get there in time. They’ve done it all before, and they’ll do it again.

… This counsellor tells her in session, & the discussion will go something like this:
"This was not your fault. You did not cause this.
Yes Maam. This was not my fault. I did not cause this.
As she pays big bucks & leaves the counselling session.
Now if he returns try not to confront him.
She tore down everything she accomplished in session.

In a ‘perfect’ world this might be true, but in a ‘perfect’ world we will not have any crime either, so the discussion here is mute. We will find out what a ‘perfect’ world will be like—very soon I’m afraid, if things keep on the way that they’re going.

…
Ladies & gentlemen there is no doubt in my mind why this lady still has to have someone drive here to work. She too is not able to articulate this, but she still knows in her spirit that no one has done anything wrong until SHE CONFRONTS HIM. No one in this article has said to the rapist, dont confront her!!!

Do you actually think that the rapist would listen?

…

Here is what I teach victims that fear retaliation whether it is domestic violence or revenge for testimony.
LE or Councellor that rejects self defense for calling the police: Get the restraining order/portective order. Call the police & don't confront him.
victim: You personally go tell him to stay away from me. I have not confronted him. You go tell him & make him not confront me.
LE/councellor...: We can't be with him every where all the time.
victim: You cant be w/ me & you can't be with him but you tell me not to confront him. Go tell him not to confront me. If he does I will defend myself immediately.
Don't take the law into your own hands. I don't I am not going after him. When he confronts me that is self defense not TAKING THE LAW INTO MY HANDS. He is taking the law into his own hand & throwing it away. Go tell him to obey the law. I am obeying the law by staying away. I am defending myself at his confrontation not TAKING THE LAW INTO MY OWN HANDS.

I’m sure that a bent on revenge madman would be stalking. He would be hunting, watching, observing—learning the movements of his intended victim. It would behoove her to act 100% normal. Learn how to defend herself BEFORE he’s released, and not tip her hand. Then, when he comes; notice I didn’t say “if he comes�, you’re ready to defend yourself. A good guard dog would not hurt either, as that’s the best pro-active defense you can legally have. Not a pit bull, that will fight anything, but a true guard type dog such as a German Shepherd Dog that will be a part of the family and vigorously defend it as well. After all, a dog is not concerned about being ‘politically correct’ when someone comes snooping around.

…
This is a lengthy process & has to be practiced over & over so it will be the response when the Q. is asked. So it will be the understanding in the heart of the victim.
Sounds like mental training & it is.

Very well said LT, and I can see that you have done well in your ministry and counseling.

Russ

[KinnyLee]

I get really aggravated w/ people who tell me I'm paranoid.

Tell me about it. It's especially true when they are your parents.
This is the convo I had with my Mom coming home after shooting on Tuesday nights.

Mom: "You're reloading your bullets aren't you? Do you know they'll track your movements, if you start buy explosive type materials such as gun powder?"

I just laugh at her. "Now a days, terrorist don't use gun powder to built bombs"

Mom: "You always have a pistol by your side and a knife in your pocket. You're at home, do you not feel safe here?"

"I carry everywhere I can. I try not to let them catch me with my pants down"

Mom: "Then you're paranoid."

"It's not paranoid. I look at this as more like well prepared."

This just drives me up the wall!

[Mithras61]

I get really aggravated w/ people who tell me I'm paranoid.

Tell me about it. It's especially true when they are your parents.
This is the convo I had with my Mom coming home after shooting on Tuesday nights.

Mom: "You're reloading your bullets aren't you? Do you know they'll track your movements, if you start buy explosive type materials such as gun powder?"

I just laugh at her. "Now a days, terrorist don't use gun powder to built bombs"

Mom: "You always have a pistol by your side and a knife in your pocket. You're at home, do you not feel safe here?"

"I carry everywhere I can. I try not to let them catch me with my pants down"

Mom: "Then you're paranoid."

"It's not paranoid. I look at this as more like well prepared."

This just drives me up the wall!

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia):

Paranoia is an excessive anxiety or fear concerning one's own well-being which is considered irrational and excessive, perhaps to the point of being a psychosis. This typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a likely threat, or a belief in a conspiracy theory.

I guess it all depends on how you define excessive. Considering the number of shootings and level of violence we are exposed to everyday, I don't think carrying self-protection is excessive.

Just being paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you...

[longtooth]

Not considered excessive here. Good job.

[j1132s]

I try not to read too deep into anything paranoid.

Having previously worked at Intel during Andy Grove 's "only the paranoid survive" days, we used to make fun of being "paranoid" all the time. I think (just like us back then) people use the word "paranoid" a lot w/o really mean it (as defined). More of a joke kind of way, so no need to over react.

I carry when I think I may go to a less safe part of town or if I take a long road trip. However, sometimes I forget to carry or am making a spontaneous trip while not carrying, and I don't feel uncomfortable or unsafe w/o my gun in these situations.

Some people have asked me why I feel the need to carry, and I just tell them it's better to be more prepared than not.

[Rex B]

I am the same way WRT carrying. I carry when I feel I need to.

A lot of CCW holders riducule those who don't carry 24/7. for the most part my life takes place in pretty safe areas. My workplace is safe, so I leave my gun in the car. If I'm going to lunch or dinner in a part of town that might be a little rowdier, I drop it in my pocket. If I'm traveling I'll have it with me. At home, I have a loaded gun of some type in each room, and both my wife and I know how to use them.
If I ever found myself, like this lady, in a circumstance where local criminals had a vendetta against me, I'd carry all the time, in a bigger caliber, and my travels would be restricted somewhat based on risk assessment. But so far I don't think I've irritated any gang memebers.

[Mithras61]

I guess it all depends on your point of view. How many of you folks carry (or used to if you're attached) that little square package in your purse or wallet when you went out for a night on the town, and carried it every time "just in case"?

I fail to see how this is any different except that from where I sit, it seems like the need for my SA 1911A1 is a better bet.

[Rex B]

The difference is you can go through a metal detector with one, but not the other. Or go to a bar. And if you use it or not, the downside is miniscule by comparison.
On the other hand, they are quite useful for keeping water and sand out of the muzzle.

[Mithras61]

The difference is you can go through a metal detector with one, but not the other. Or go to a bar. And if you use it or not, the downside is miniscule by comparison.
On the other hand, they are quite useful for keeping water and sand out of the muzzle.

My failure to see the difference is not on the specifics of the application it is used for, but rather on the "just in case" mentality. It's the fact that when you need it, you REALLY need it that I'm getting at.