Ban Cops from Glocks

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ScottDLS
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby ScottDLS » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:04 pm

nightmare69 wrote:I have yet to acquire the elite status of operator so I carry a Sig p226. Maybe one day...


Finally someone who gets it... :smilelol5: .

You are on your way to being an operator operating operationally. ;-)
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"
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Has your Texas Rep. co-sponsored HB560 yet?

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G26ster
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby G26ster » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:06 pm

ScottDLS wrote:
nightmare69 wrote:I have yet to acquire the elite status of operator so I carry a Sig p226. Maybe one day...


Finally someone who gets it... :smilelol5: .

You are on your way to being an operator operating operationally. ;-)


Just buy some overpriced "tactical" pants, shorts, shirts, jackets, and underwear, and you can be an "operator" (in your own mind).


patterson
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby patterson » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:00 pm

I prefer the DA/SA of Sig over the glock trigger it seems mushy to me plus I never liked the way a glock feels in my hand

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby The Annoyed Man » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:33 am

Liberty wrote:What I find frustrating is the fading away of the traditional hammered SA/DA handgun. Thereseem to be fewer and fewer of them on the market, with DA being more common. I find the 1911 is just too finicky to trust especially the commander and subcompact models. Running enough defense ammo to build confidence enough to trust these things is can be an expensive proposition. I will likely buy a nice 1911 someday, but It would likely never be carried as a primary defense gun.

Glocks, to me, just don't have that margin of error for safety. An instinctive grab for a falling gun, or the quick wandering hands of a toddler are risks that concern me. I like the idea of a mechanical safety. Perhaps a holster with good retention would relieve me of some of my concerns. I am also uncomfortable with the concept of pulling the trigger to disassemble the gun.

Glocks and 1911s aren't bad guns, They just aren't the best choice for everyone.

I understand your concerns about the Glock, and it took me a while to get to the idea of the internal safeties that prevent a dropped Glock from discharging, and the idea of the trigger safety had to be overcome too. But in the end, I accepted that they work as advertised, and that's when I got comfortable with the idea of carrying one. I had to come to two conclusions:

(1) to never reflexively grab for a dropped gun....a scuffed finish is better than a bullet hole any day of the week;

and (2)


As far as pulling the trigger to take down the gun...... yeah, if you don't follow procedure, you'll possibly could shoot yourself. Did I ever tell you about the LAPD cop I helped to treat in our ER who had shot himself through the knee (top to bottom) with a 1911, ostensibly while cleaning his gun and sitting in his lazy boy with his feet up — ending his career as a cop? So.......

If you have a Glock, the procedure is very simple: unload AND CLEAR the gun. Verify clear with more than one rack of the slide. Set the magazine(s) and ejected cartridge aside - preferably in another room. Strip the gun. End of problem.

If that LAPD cop had followed procedure, he'd have had another 10-15 years as a cop - if he wanted it. Back when I was carrying 1911s exclusively, I used to make fun of Glock guys like Plaxico Burress who unintentionally shot himself......but then there is the famous YouTube video of the guy with a 1911 shooting himself in the thigh as he draws from a Serpa holster. And of course, who can forget the "DEA Gun Expert" who shoots himself in the foot in front of a bunch of impressionable children. Name a pistol platform, I'll probably find a YouTube video of someone ventilating himself with it. (Remember the guy with the pump action shotgun who looks down the muzzle of his "defective" shotgun, bangs the buttstock on the ground, and blow his hat off?)

ALL of these are cases of someone who did something stupid with a gun, and in MOST cases, it was having his booger hook in the bang switch when it didn't need to be or shouldn't have been. As far as kids go.... I have two grandbabies my wife and I babysit every day, and I have guns in the house. Right now, they can't get to them, so I don't worry about it. When they get a little bigger, I'm going to have to change the way I do things - but that would be true whether the gun was a Glock or a 1911, right? So I don't see the problem here.

So, "this is my safety, sir", and that's how we do that.
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Liberty
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby Liberty » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:17 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
If you have a Glock, the procedure is very simple: unload AND CLEAR the gun. Verify clear with more than one rack of the slide. Set the magazine(s) and ejected cartridge aside - preferably in another room. Strip the gun. End of problem.


A good Idea for any gun. I don't have any criticism for folks who safely carry a Glock. Just that they aren't for me, as long as there are other more suitable handguns. I just believe there are valid safety reasons for classic hammer fired SA/DA handguns. There is a larger margin of error. I do believe that a holster with retention will mitigate some of the issues I have. Most of my holsters are low retention types.

I do understand that some folks don't care for the long hard first trigger pull of DA/SA But I think that in a combat situation that the trigger isn't going to make much of a difference in first shot situation, with adrenalin and all.
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"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." John F. Kennedy

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby The Annoyed Man » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:38 pm

Liberty wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
If you have a Glock, the procedure is very simple: unload AND CLEAR the gun. Verify clear with more than one rack of the slide. Set the magazine(s) and ejected cartridge aside - preferably in another room. Strip the gun. End of problem.


A good Idea for any gun. I don't have any criticism for folks who safely carry a Glock. Just that they aren't for me, as long as there are other more suitable handguns. I just believe there are valid safety reasons for classic hammer fired SA/DA handguns. There is a larger margin of error. I do believe that a holster with retention will mitigate some of the issues I have. Most of my holsters are low retention types.

I do understand that some folks don't care for the long hard first trigger pull of DA/SA But I think that in a combat situation that the trigger isn't going to make much of a difference in first shot situation, with adrenalin and all.

One of the things I really liked about my old hammer fired USP Compact .40 was that it could be carried cocked and locked, OR decocked with a DA first pull. I just didn't like the caliber in the end. IF I had bought it in .45 or 9mm, I'd likely still have it. It's a great pistol.
"Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself."—Hookalakah Meshobbab
"I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes."—The Annoyed Boy
"Id aegre et in omnibus semper."—Quod Homo Aegre


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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby LeonCarr » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:27 pm

I won't trust my life to a 1911.

To paraphrase what TAM said, 1911s are just like Jaguar automobiles. It is best to have two, so you can have one to drive when the other one is in the shop :biggrinjester:

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
"If you attempt to leave, or play any games, I will TAZER you and watch Supernanny while you drool into the carpet." - Agent Coulson to Tony Stark in Iron Man 2


patterson
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby patterson » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:16 pm

LeonCarr wrote:I won't trust my life to a 1911.

To paraphrase what TAM said, 1911s are just like Jaguar automobiles. It is best to have two, so you can have one to drive when the other one is in the shop :biggrinjester:

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Don't know what 1911s yall are having issues with and don't feel reliable . I haven't had that many FTF or FTE with mine

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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby Liberty » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:53 pm

patterson wrote:Don't know what 1911s yall are having issues with and don't feel reliable . I haven't had that many FTF or FTE with mine

I don't know how many this is, but it sounds like more than I would tolorate with any of my guns. I take my guns to range quite a bit and have poured thousands of rounds through the barrels. I had one failure .. The retaining clip for the guide rod came off and bashed the guide bushing a bit ,.. The gun was still functional and continued to fire. Ruger sent me the two tiny parts free of charge for my 10 year old Ruger P95. I did have one FTE from my Beretta 92 but it was while I was introducing my niece to handguns, and she was limpwristing badly. I corrected her and she continued to shoot a whole box of ammo. For some a few FTEs here and a few there is acceptable, others take a zero defect stance. Some people have pretty good luck with their 1911s, others manage to tweak them and their ammo into reliability. Others not so much.. I don't own any Glocks and don't have any plans to either but it's hard to deny that for most people they are a very reliable handgun.
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"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." John F. Kennedy


patterson
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby patterson » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Liberty wrote:
patterson wrote:Don't know what 1911s yall are having issues with and don't feel reliable . I haven't had that many FTF or FTE with mine

I don't know how many this is, but it sounds like more than I would tolorate with any of my guns. I take my guns to range quite a bit and have poured thousands of rounds through the barrels. I had one failure .. The retaining clip for the guide rod came off and bashed the guide bushing a bit ,.. The gun was still functional and continued to fire. Ruger sent me the two tiny parts free of charge for my 10 year old Ruger P95. I did have one FTE from my Beretta 92 but it was while I was introducing my niece to handguns, and she was limpwristing badly. I corrected her and she continued to shoot a whole box of ammo. For some a few FTEs here and a few there is acceptable, others take a zero defect stance. Some people have pretty good luck with their 1911s, others manage to tweak them and their ammo into reliability. Others not so much.. I don't own any Glocks and don't have any plans to either but it's hard to deny that for most people they are a very reliable handgun.

Guess I fall in with the people that have pretty good luck with their 1911s


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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby OlBill » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:23 pm

patterson wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Lena wrote:I also have several 100% reliable 1911's and carried them for years and would do again if need to, when asked on a bet your life on it carry weapon I always say SIG or GLOCK and would say same today.


I must just be lucky with 1911's. I have owned 9 different 1911's from Colt, Dan Wesson, Nighthawk, Les Baer, CZ, and Magnum Research. Now I realize that none of these are "low end" manufacturers. But, my 1911's have been every bit as reliable as my non-1911's. In that second category are guns from Glock, Sig, and CZ, among others.

Given no other parameters (number of BG's, range, etc), I would "bet my life" on a 1911, which I do, every day. That said, for the specific situation of a home invasion, I "bet my life" on a Sig, because that gun is more accurate, and has a greater capacity, even though it is too big to carry.

Now if you told me I had a $500 budget, I would get a Glock (Gen 3) as opposed to any 1911 that I could buy in that price range.

I have carried 1911s in the past and wouldn't hesitate carrying one again and I agree on the accuracy of Sigs


The 1911 is the most accurate handgun in the world.

Of course they will all out shoot the shooter.


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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby OlBill » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:29 pm

That reminds me of a story. I had a Batt Boy friend who later went to the AWG.

A guy showed him the new Big Dot sights he had installed on his 1911.

My partner looked at him, shook his head and said, "Dude, you just turned the most accurate handgun in the world into a Glock! Get out of my sight!"

Hilarious.


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