Ban Cops from Glocks

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Liberty
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Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby Liberty » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:25 pm

An Op Ed in the LA times proposes that cops should be banned packing Glocks.
LA Times OpEd
The underlying problem with these pistols is a short trigger pull and the lack of an external safety. In real-world encounters, a short trigger pull can be lethal, in part because a significant percentage of law enforcement officers — some experts say as high as 20% — put their finger on the trigger of their weapons when under stress. According to firearms trainers, most officers are completely unaware of their tendency to do this and have a hard time believing it, even when they're shown video evidence from training exercises.


Is it the Glocks fault, the LEOs or the training? If the short trigger pull is the problem, I take it he wouldn't like 1911's either. I used to see a lot off cops with Beretta 92s. Not so much any more.
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OlBill
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby OlBill » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:52 pm

It's a training issue. Glocks are gunfighter guns.


george72
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby george72 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:12 pm

Finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire..........????? More training, don't blame the equipment.


Swoops1
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby Swoops1 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:13 pm

Hate articles like this that mix issues. My thought are training/practice. I practice about 3 times a month and try to do some type of training once per month. Wonder how many LEOs have that opportunity. As far as the article personally I think trigger pull weight and break weight have a greater impact than travel length.


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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby LeonCarr » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:23 pm

Keep your "Booger Hook Off The Bang Switch" and negligent discharges won't happen.

Everybody is so quick to blame hardware (Glocks, Serpa Holsters, etc.) when a software update is what is needed.

Just my .02,
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby Liberty » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:55 pm

OlBill wrote:It's a training issue. Glocks are gunfighter guns.

Aren't they all?
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby carlson1 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:54 pm

put their finger on the trigger of their weapons when under stress.


...because they do not train enough. I am not bashing LE I was one and my youngest is one, but they absolutely DO NOT have enough training. Every tool they use should should have required trading yearly (not just qualifications), but real stress training. I know from experience they will not do it on their own. They should be required to train. This is something the State must require because a lot of departments in Texas are only going to do the minimum.
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patterson
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby patterson » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:40 pm

If they can't break habit of putting finger on trigger maybe they should try a DA/SAS pistol


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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby patterson » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:44 pm

I meant DA/SA

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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby Liberty » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:18 pm

I do believe that the article did highlight one serious problem. Officers are not only putting their fingers on the trigger,, but the fact that they aren't even aware they are doing it. As others have said this is a training problem and not a Glock problem. Situation awareness isn't just being aware of what is all around us, but it is also about ourselves, what we are doing and where we are.
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby cmgee67 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:38 pm

And friend of mine used to work for Dallas PD and he said when he was there 1911's were banned because two officers he knew at Dallas were in a gun fight and both got killed because their 1911's jammed. I' don't remember if it was two separate gun fights or the same one but nevertheless ,That's why I don't, I won't, and I will never trust a 1911 to save my life. Every 1911 I've used or handled have all jammed or malfunctioned in one way or another. Ruger, kimber, colt, Springfield, and a couple others. I have handled. All messed up. Ill stick with my Glocks.
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby WTR » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:09 pm

I don't care if a ND is caused by the platform or the operator. The facts are more NDs are reported while carriage certain platforms. Any amount of training does not seem to change this. When LA PD began switching over from 92s to M&P 9s NDs more than doubled from the same users. I have read the 92s were even carried with the thumb safety off but in DA mode with a 15 lb trigger pull. Bottom line,some produts are more suceptable to a ND no matter the training....just like the Serpa holster. I don't want my tax payer money funding a weapon that may be even 1% more dangerous than a alternative. Why should we spend money on training that has no effect?


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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby OlBill » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:22 pm

Liberty wrote:
OlBill wrote:It's a training issue. Glocks are gunfighter guns.

Aren't they all?

Some are more forgiving than others. I taught Glock to military and police for about 7 years. Other guns will forgive bad habits like that finger curling into the trigger guard. Glock not so much. It happens on the draw from the holster a lot.

Some of it may be the ergonomics of the gun.

It's not a good gun for amateurs in my opinion.

Having said that, yes, it a gun fighter's hands they all are.

Glocks certainly don't do anything to slow one down though, do they. :cool:


OlBill
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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby OlBill » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:25 pm

WTR wrote:I don't care if a ND is caused by the platform or the operator. The facts are more NDs are reported while carriage certain platforms. Any amount of training does not seem to change this. When LA PD began switching over from 92s to M&P 9s NDs more than doubled from the same users. I have read the 92s were even carried with the thumb safety off but in DA mode with a 15 lb trigger pull. Bottom line,some produts are more suceptable to a ND no matter the training....just like the Serpa holster. I don't want my tax payer money funding a weapon that may be even 1% more dangerous than a alternative. Why should we spend money on training that has no effect?


"Began switching over"...

There's the problem. They probably didn't start from the beginning.


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Re: Ban Cops from Glocks

Postby OlBill » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:26 pm

How much time do they spend shooting on a clock?


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