MPA Fact Check

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omegaman
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MPA Fact Check

Postby omegaman » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:39 pm

A young man I know who attends our church (I think he's 17), showed me a photo of his new Glock that his dad bought for him recently. I asked if he planned to carry it in his truck and he looked at me inquisitively, so I talked to him about the Texas Motorist Protection Act. I told him that the handgun must be concealed at all times and about the other simple requirements that must be met (which I have not doubt that he would always be compliant with).
I got to thinking afterwards that, I need to double-check that the MPA is applicable to minors, hence my post.
So, just to make sure that I did not give the lad unsound advice, do the knowledgeable members of this forum concur that minors can keep a concealed handgun in their vehicles in Texas?
Thanks.

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C-dub
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Re: MPA Fact Check

Postby C-dub » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:39 pm

I do not believe that this 17y old minor can legally possess any firearm as part of the MPA or any other law. Wait until he turns 18y then it is much different.
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Flightmare
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Re: MPA Fact Check

Postby Flightmare » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:46 pm

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/atf-p-5300-4pdf/download

Federal law prohibits Federal firearms licensees from selling or delivering any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than 18 years of age

Additionally, it generally is unlawful for a person to transfer a handgun to a juvenile (a person less than 18 years of age) and it generally is unlawful for a juvenile to possess a handgun. Exceptions are provided for the transfer of a handgun to and possession by a juvenile for the purposes of employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting as provided for in 18 U.S.C. 922(x).


Like C-dub said, I do not believe it would be lawful for a 17 year old to possess a firearm (outside of the legal exceptions). However if the young man is indeed 18 (perhaps you gauged his age wrong), then it would be lawful for him to carry under the authority of the MPA (assuming he meets all the other statutory requirements)
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ScottDLS
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Re: MPA Fact Check

Postby ScottDLS » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:50 pm

C-dub wrote:I do not believe that this 17y old minor can legally possess any firearm as part of the MPA or any other law. Wait until he turns 18y then it is much different.


The better question is what would he be charged with for carrying the Glock in accordance with MPA.

Not 46.02 Unlawful Carrying of a Weapon...nothing about age in there.

Dad wouldn't be charged with "PC §46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD." Because in that statute someone 17 is not defined a "child".

Federal law has to do with "transferring" a handgun to someone under 18 and has exception with parental permission (if federal law even applies to possession).
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Re: MPA Fact Check

Postby C-dub » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:06 pm

ScottDLS wrote:
C-dub wrote:I do not believe that this 17y old minor can legally possess any firearm as part of the MPA or any other law. Wait until he turns 18y then it is much different.


The better question is what would he be charged with for carrying the Glock in accordance with MPA.

Not 46.02 Unlawful Carrying of a Weapon...nothing about age in there.

Dad wouldn't be charged with "PC §46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD." Because in that statute someone 17 is not defined a "child".

Federal law has to do with "transferring" a handgun to someone under 18 and has exception with parental permission (if federal law even applies to possession).

I've been looking and also noticed that in 46.13 an anomaly of sorts creates an odd situation for someone that is 17y old. I have yet to find where it states the legal age to possess a firearm in Texas other than this. Given also that there always seem to be exceptions it might be legal for a 17y old to have a handgun in the vehicle according to the MPA.

Now, if this person is still in school, I think would be a very bad idea to do so since he would also be perking his car on school property and does not have an LTC. It would be too easy to forget to remove it before going to school.
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Re: MPA Fact Check

Postby CleverNickname » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:18 pm

As described, it would appear that the juvenile's conduct does not meet any of the exceptions under 922(x).

18 USC 922(x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(3) This subsection does not apply to—
(A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile—
(i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;
(ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile’s parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm, except—
(I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded handgun in a locked container directly from the place of transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause (i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container, directly from the place at which such an activity took place to the transferor; or
(II) with respect to ranching or farming activities as described in clause (i), a juvenile may possess and use a handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the juvenile’s parent or legal guardian and at the direction of an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local law from possessing a firearm;
(iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile’s possession at all times when a handgun is in the possession of the juvenile; and
(iv) in accordance with State and local law;
(B) a juvenile who is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard who possesses or is armed with a handgun in the line of duty;
(C) a transfer by inheritance of title (but not possession) of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile; or
(D) the possession of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile taken in defense of the juvenile or other persons against an intruder into the residence of the juvenile or a residence in which the juvenile is an invited guest.
(4) A handgun or ammunition, the possession of which is transferred to a juvenile in circumstances in which the transferor is not in violation of this subsection shall not be subject to permanent confiscation by the Government if its possession by the juvenile subsequently becomes unlawful because of the conduct of the juvenile, but shall be returned to the lawful owner when such handgun or ammunition is no longer required by the Government for the purposes of investigation or prosecution.
(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term “juvenile” means a person who is less than 18 years of age.
(6)
(A) In a prosecution of a violation of this subsection, the court shall require the presence of a juvenile defendant’s parent or legal guardian at all proceedings.
(B) The court may use the contempt power to enforce subparagraph (A).
(C) The court may excuse attendance of a parent or legal guardian of a juvenile defendant at a proceeding in a prosecution of a violation of this subsection for good cause shown.


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omegaman
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Re: MPA Fact Check

Postby omegaman » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:29 pm

As described, it would appear that the juvenile's conduct does not meet any of the exceptions under 922(x).

18 USC 922(x)

Yeah, but we don't really care about federal regulations here in Texas, do we?

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Re: MPA Fact Check

Postby Zoo » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:30 pm

ScottDLS wrote:The better question is what would he be charged with for carrying the Glock in accordance with MPA.

:thumbs2:
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: MPA Fact Check

Postby The Annoyed Man » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:54 pm

omegaman wrote:
As described, it would appear that the juvenile's conduct does not meet any of the exceptions under 922(x).

18 USC 922(x)

Yeah, but we don't really care about federal regulations here in Texas, do we?

Well...... YEAH we do, if that's what keeps us out of prison! :roll:

Sheesh!

We especially care about federal law when we are giving bad legal advice to someone else's minor child.

BTW, "care about" doesn't necessarily mean "approve of". I care about having a murderer loose in my neighborhood, but I don't approve of it. I don't have a problem with a 17 year old having a Glock pistol. I gave MY son a pistol before he turned 18. But he only used it legally, in my presence, and he did not keep it in his car under MPA because I would have whupped his behind if he had. He knew better. I had NO problem with him having a Mossberg in the trunk of his car after he turned 18. But you (or anyone else, for that matter) shouldn't dispense legal advice about firearms to a minor who is not your own child, regardless of whether or not you attend the same church. I would have been mad as heck at anyone trying to give my son incorrect legal advice about carrying a gun in his car when he was a minor, church brother or not, and I would make sure that he understood in no uncertain terms that he was out of line.

And this doesn't include what could happen to an impressionable young man who follows the bad advice given to him by an adult.

I can't be the only one who thinks it's disturbing.
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Re: MPA Fact Check

Postby oljames3 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:40 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
omegaman wrote:
As described, it would appear that the juvenile's conduct does not meet any of the exceptions under 922(x).

18 USC 922(x)

Yeah, but we don't really care about federal regulations here in Texas, do we?

Well...... YEAH we do, if that's what keeps us out of prison! :roll:

Sheesh!

We especially care about federal law when we are giving bad legal advice to someone else's minor child.

BTW, "care about" doesn't necessarily mean "approve of". I care about having a murderer loose in my neighborhood, but I don't approve of it. I don't have a problem with a 17 year old having a Glock pistol. I gave MY son a pistol before he turned 18. But he only used it legally, in my presence, and he did not keep it in his car under MPA because I would have whupped his behind if he had. He knew better. I had NO problem with him having a Mossberg in the trunk of his car after he turned 18. But you (or anyone else, for that matter) shouldn't dispense legal advice about firearms to a minor who is not your own child, regardless of whether or not you attend the same church. I would have been mad as heck at anyone trying to give my son incorrect legal advice about carrying a gun in his car when he was a minor, church brother or not, and I would make sure that he understood in no uncertain terms that he was out of line.

And this doesn't include what could happen to an impressionable young man who follows the bad advice given to him by an adult.

I can't be the only one who thinks it's disturbing.

:iagree:
Amen. Such a person dispensing bad gun advice to any of my minors would find out what Jesus told the money changers in the temple (my paraphrase, of course).
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Lambda Force
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Re: MPA Fact Check

Postby Lambda Force » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:24 pm

oljames3 wrote:Amen. Such a person dispensing bad gun advice to any of my minors would find out what Jesus told the money changers in the temple (my paraphrase, of course).

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