Mossberg Shockwave

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby The Annoyed Man » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:11 am

rotor wrote:
von Clausewitz wrote:
rotor wrote:
Jusme wrote:
rotor wrote:After reading this long thread clarify for me whether this firearm will be legal (9/1) to carry in a guncase of some kind or will the only legal way to transport it would be with it out in the open? I can see the little old lady man with a gun calls now. I carry my shotguns in a case whenever I travel. This firearm may be illegal to carry in a case. More problems.



From my understanding, and I'm far from a layer, or legal scholar, this type of firearm, was specifically, designated to be legal to carry, due to its designation from the ATFE. I don't know that it was specifically, considered "illegal", but there was a question, prior to the bill during the last session. JMHO


Mossberg site says if concealed it is an A.O.W.
https://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/upl ... ACTION.pdf
So how does one transport this without scaring the population at large? Even putting it in a back pack would appear to make it an A.O.W. as far as ATF is concerned. We are going to need some method to carry this. I am sticking to my new Mossberg Maverick 88 but I am curious about all firearms.



If one does not have a Texas LTC and wants to take a weapon to the range, is it concealed carry to put the gun in a case and walk down the street enroute to the range?

I am specifically referring to Federal law about carrying it concealed. You are quoting Texas law. Just because it is shipped to a store in a box does not mean Mr. Citizen can carry this around in a box or a violin case without it being considered an A.O.W. by the feds even on the way to the range. Federal laws are far from logical and probably easy to break and hard to catch. Look at all the people going to the post office every day. Probably a lot of them with guns in their glovebox. I personally do not plan on buying one of these but I was curious about how one could carry it and even if it was ATF legal to carry in a guncase. I am of the belief that it is not. LTC laws are not applicable in this case.

I would submit the following.......

1. Is there actually ANY federal law against concealed carry of a firearm of any type? So far as I know, the answer would be no. My reasoning is thus: States decide who can and cannot carry a concealed firearm. Not all states that issue concealed carry licenses issue them specifically for handguns - like ours is. Other states have "CW" permit - meaning a permit to carry a concealed weapon, which is a much broader category of implements than just handguns.

2. Federal law pre-empts state law. Period:
  1. If the federal gov't had a law against concealed carry of handguns, it would pre-empt state law for concealed carry of handguns, and invalidate ALL concealed handgun licenses nationwide.

  2. If the federal gov't had a law against concealed carry of long guns, it would pre-empt state law for concealed carry of long guns, invalidating all such state laws nationwide.

  3. If the federal gov't had a law against the concealed carry of SBRs, SBSs, or AOWs, it would pre-empt state law for concealed carry of those types of weapons, invalidating all such state laws nationwide.

ERGO: If the federal gov't had any of the above laws on the books, Texas could not grant you permission to:
  1. Carry your cased handgun to the range without a LTC;

  2. Carry your cased long gun to the range with or without an LTC (which does not apply to long guns);

  3. Carry your cased SBR, SBS, or AOW to the range with or without an LTC (which does not apply to those categories of weapons).
Furthermore, if the federal gov't had any law against the open carry of any of the above kind of weapons, it would trump state law in the matter. Therefore, it would be illegal to openly carry a long gun in Texas, no matter what Texas law says in the matter. The fedgov't would have a field day during dove or deer season in Texas if open carry of long guns violated federal law.

CONCLUSION: It is completely legal for you to carry your cased Shockwave to the range. The AFT regulates possession and/or taxation of different kinds of guns, but to the best of my knowledge, it does not regulate their concealment one way or the other. The original state purpose for registering and regulating SBR/SBS/AOW did have to do with their concealability, but in their infinite wisdom, the Feds decided to regulate their possession rather than their manner of carry. So if you're legal in the eyes of the fedgov't to possess the weapon, then whether or not you may carry it by whatever means is left entirely up to the state to decide.

In Texas, you can carry your Shockwave any old way you want. Just be advised that local LEOs might not be up to speed on all this, and mere causation would dictate having it in a bag or case of some kind so that it is not readily viewed unless you deploy it.
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rotor
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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby rotor » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:45 am

TAM
This from Mossberg website

"3. Do not carry the Mossberg Shockwave concealed. If this gun is carry concealed, it would
be defined by BATFE as an A.O.W. and the user could be charged with possession of an
unregistered NFA weapon."

Possession of an unregistered NFA weapon is illegal. Correct?

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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby The Annoyed Man » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:10 pm

rotor wrote:TAM
This from Mossberg website

"3. Do not carry the Mossberg Shockwave concealed. If this gun is carry concealed, it would
be defined by BATFE as an A.O.W. and the user could be charged with possession of an
unregistered NFA weapon."

Possession of an unregistered NFA weapon is illegal. Correct?

Yes, possession of an unregistered NFA weapon is illegal. I didn't see the Mossberg warning. But then that begs a lot of other questions. If you store it in the trunk of your car, is it "concealed"? If you store it in a case at home, is it "concealed"?

Revisiting the Mossberg/ATF letter: http://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Shockwave-Letter-from-ATF-3-2-17.pdf,
Finally, the NFA, 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e), defines "any other weapon" as follows:

...any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

So it appears that the qualifier is "capable of being concealed on the person.....". So, it appears that if you are carrying the Shockwave concealed on your person - the same way you'd conceal a handgun on your person - then you're violating the NFA. So it really boils down to whether or not openly carrying a cased Shockwave constitutes (A) "on your person", and (B) "concealed".

Now I understand the confusion.

Here's my "caveman lawyer" guess...... You can't carry the Shockwave concealed on your person as an alternative to having a carry license and a concealed handgun, but I don't think the Feds are going to drag you off to jail for carrying one in a gun case to a shooting range, for the reason that both you and they would argue that having it cased while transported is safer.
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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby rotor » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:39 pm

TAM
You have exactly noted my concern. One would think that the term conceal would not need clarification but potentially it could be a problem. Place a Shockwave in a backpack carried on your back and you are illegal. Carry in a gun case, who knows. Carry exposed and little old ladies call the police (who probably won't know either). Logic says that the proper way to carry this on the way to the range would be in a gun case but when has logic ever been a determining factor with the law? I think that if I owned one of these I would buy the $5 A.O.W. stamp just to avoid the possible ( although unlikely ) possibility of a legal problem.


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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby ninjabread » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:13 pm

It's funny until the feds gun down your wife and son because they think the shotgun barrel is too short.
This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby rotor » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:25 pm

FYI $369 at TargetSports with free shipping.
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/mossber ... 60844.aspx

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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby The Annoyed Man » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:47 pm

rotor wrote:TAM
You have exactly noted my concern. One would think that the term conceal would not need clarification but potentially it could be a problem. Place a Shockwave in a backpack carried on your back and you are illegal. Carry in a gun case, who knows. Carry exposed and little old ladies call the police (who probably won't know either). Logic says that the proper way to carry this on the way to the range would be in a gun case but when has logic ever been a determining factor with the law? I think that if I owned one of these I would buy the $5 A.O.W. stamp just to avoid the possible ( although unlikely ) possibility of a legal problem.

What would be a real smart marketing move for Mossberg would be to commission the making of Shockwave-sized gun cases - kind of like Ruger did with the case for the 10/22 takedown rifles - bearing the Mossberg logo, pockets for extra shot shells, etc., and sell them online for a reasonable price. I'll bet they'd sell every last one of them. It would solve both the concealment and transportation issues.
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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby rentz » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:58 am

with sept1 coming i still am torn on the shockwave vs a fullblown 590 for the house.
oh decisions decisions, i may need both "rlol"


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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby JRG » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:33 pm

rentz wrote:with sept1 coming i still am torn on the shockwave vs a fullblown 590 for the house.
oh decisions decisions, i may need both "rlol"



I am in the same boat. I'd like the Shockwave, but I might also want a Mossberg 930 SPX too.

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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby rm9792 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:08 pm

allisji wrote:
von Clausewitz wrote:
rotor wrote:
Jusme wrote:
rotor wrote:If I recall correctly, traveling to and from the range is related to a sporting activity. It is not illegal to carry a handgun without an LTC to and from the range, but you better be on a direct route to the range or have a receipt from the range if you are on the way home. Did the AG opinion indicate that the Shockwave be considered a handgun?

I have never gotten a receipt from a range. Member ranges dont even have a way to get one. There are other gun related activities than ranges. Besides all this, MPA was passed years ago. Anybody can have in their car anytime if legal to own.


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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby nimravus01 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:39 am

I found a NCStar "tactical shotgun scabbard" at my local Army surplus store. The Shockwave fits completely inside. Pretty good for transport.


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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby rotor » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:29 am

rm9792 wrote:
allisji wrote:
von Clausewitz wrote:
rotor wrote:
Jusme wrote:
rotor wrote:If I recall correctly, traveling to and from the range is related to a sporting activity. It is not illegal to carry a handgun without an LTC to and from the range, but you better be on a direct route to the range or have a receipt from the range if you are on the way home. Did the AG opinion indicate that the Shockwave be considered a handgun?

I have never gotten a receipt from a range. Member ranges dont even have a way to get one. There are other gun related activities than ranges. Besides all this, MPA was passed years ago. Anybody can have in their car anytime if legal to own.

FYI, the quote above that looks like I said it was made by another poster and what you are seeing is the result of a bad cut and snip. The quote following my name was done by allisji. Does it matter, not really but it is not my quote.

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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby allisji » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:30 am

rm9792 wrote:
allisji wrote:
von Clausewitz wrote:
rotor wrote:
Jusme wrote:
rotor wrote:If I recall correctly, traveling to and from the range is related to a sporting activity. It is not illegal to carry a handgun without an LTC to and from the range, but you better be on a direct route to the range or have a receipt from the range if you are on the way home. Did the AG opinion indicate that the Shockwave be considered a handgun?

I have never gotten a receipt from a range. Member ranges dont even have a way to get one. There are other gun related activities than ranges. Besides all this, MPA was passed years ago. Anybody can have in their car anytime if legal to own.


You are right about the MPA, however, the question that I responded to asked specifically about walking down the street to go to the range.

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I have contacted my state rep Dennis Paul about co-sponsoring HB560.

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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby puma guy » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:40 am

Picked up my Shockwave yesterday and learned the box got wet on one end during the hurricane. The SG didn't get wet. My LGS had several Shockwaves held until Sept 1 that had boxes damaged as well so Mossberg is sending them new boxes. :thumbs2: Gonna try to get to the range to try it with the Federal #1 Buckshot Flite control shells if PSC dries out before I have some surgery that will put me out of commission for a while. :fire

Ordered one of these in black. I've got to figure a way to attach it for easy reach access from the rear of my truck. Voodoo Tactical 20-8916 Breacher's Shotgun Scabbard

VooDoo Breachers Scabbard.jpg
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Re: Mossberg Shockwave

Postby The Annoyed Man » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:22 am

puma guy wrote:Picked up my Shockwave yesterday and learned the box got wet on one end during the hurricane. The SG didn't get wet. My LGS had several Shockwaves held until Sept 1 that had boxes damaged as well so Mossberg is sending them new boxes. :thumbs2: Gonna try to get to the range to try it with the Federal #1 Buckshot Flite control shells if PSC dries out before I have some surgery that will put me out of commission for a while. :fire

Ordered one of these in black. I've got to figure a way to attach it for easy reach access from the rear of my truck. Voodoo Tactical 20-8916 Breacher's Shotgun Scabbard

VooDoo Breachers Scabbard.jpg

I have essentially that same scabbard, purchased at a Fort Worth mil-surp store, for my 20" 590A1. It is a VERY handy way to transport a shotgun.
"Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself."—Hookalakah Meshobbab
"I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes."—The Annoyed Boy
"Id aegre et in omnibus semper."—Quod Homo Aegre


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