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My wife and I both OC in SERPA holsters. As long as your trigger discipline is where it needs to be, there's no added chance that you'll have an ND. With my pistol, pressing the release button on the holster places my finger straight and off the trigger as I draw the weapon - right where it should be.

I used a Serpa for 6 years before I went to the Safariland GLS. During that time, I had no problems, but I did become acquainted with the holster as I do all my holsters. (yes I have many, but I do use them for show and tell in classes) I have not seen any reports that the Serpa was found to be unsafe unless the user was not using it correctly. But I guess there will always be those who think Serpa holsters hurt them and those people probably think that there are actually mean, black rifles that will assault someone. Yes, Safariland holsters are easier to use and provide retention that is (IMO) more natural to disengage. Bottomline, the world gets better when folks realize they are responsible for their own actions or deliberate lack of action.
Just remember, practice keeping your bugger hook off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

P.S. The main reason so many Training classes do not allow Serpa holsters is because they have no way of knowing the expertise or practice habits of students until they show up.

Name one holster that has even half the reports of jamming/breaking/injury that the Serpa does.

It doesn't take a brick wall falling on me or a bullet going through my leg for me to get the message.

Pawpaw wrote:Name one holster that has even half the reports of jamming/breaking/injury that the Serpa does.

It doesn't take a brick wall falling on me or a bullet going through my leg for me to get the message.

To my knowledge, Serpa was the first holster that had a manually operated release that was bought by the thousands if not ten-thousands. Percentage-wise I would think any holster that does not cover the trigger has as much or more incidents while in use. IMHO, these are still 99.99% the fault of the user. It is easier to blame something or someone else for one's carelessness. Like I said earlier I went to the Safariland GLS not because the Serpa was unsafe, but because Safariland GLS felt more comfortable and natural. When someone builds a better mousetrap (holster)that meets my liking I will probably switch again. Same reason I went from 1911 to Glock for EDC in 99. It was a decision made by me for me and if I would have had a negligent discharge with the 1911 it would have 99.9 percent probably been my fault and not the firearm, the same applies with any Glock, FN, Keltec or revolver I might carry or use.

AndyC wrote:It's a crap design, forcing a user's trigger-finger so close to the trigger; no wonder there are accidents.

But all guns and all hoslters are equally safe.

For instance, the super-secret Gen 6 prototype tupperguns are awesome. The barrel points backwards so it doubles as a rain gauge in the holster.

Instead of a front sight you get a rear view mirror. Just turn your back to the threat and make sure to shoot over your shoulder. If - and this is a really big, super-hypothetical "if" - there are any injuries, it's not the design. It's training.

Shooters with extra large hangy-down parts on their ears are cautioned to use gun muffs instead of ear plugs. You can't compromise safety.

AndyC wrote:It's a crap design, forcing a user's trigger-finger so close to the trigger; no wonder there are accidents.

I'm just guessing, but Safariland might have patents for thumb-deactivated holsters which Blackhawk (or anyone else) would be infringing if they also used such a mechanism.

imkopaka wrote:My wife and I both OC in SERPA holsters. As long as your trigger discipline is where it needs to be, there's no added chance that you'll have an ND. With my pistol, pressing the release button on the holster places my finger straight and off the trigger as I draw the weapon - right where it should be.

And that right there is the key to using this holster safely.

Many folks improperly depress the release with the tip of the trigger finger, thus putting the finger in position to go right into the trigger guard with sometimes very poor results.

I never had an issue with it, it was only slowing me down at the matches. That is all. Finger is all the time should be straight. I see all the time so many shooters try to tighten their trigger finger as soon as they grip the pistol. That is the case for any pistol in any holster. As an RO at DPC, I am responsible to catch any "glock leg" for any pistol pulled from any holster.

We have been having a similar conversation on AR15.com.

You "Serpa Supporters" have to watch these two videos. The video is with Patrick Sweeney, and for two whole minutes, he declares that anyone who doesn't like the Serpa holster is either uninformed or misinformed, that they are total amateurs who are not smart enough to know the 4 rules, or who are just plain too stupid to keep their finger off of the trigger.

At the 2:28 mark, Mr "well trained Serpa Supporter" then draws his PPQ from his Serpa, in slow motion no less, and Mr "I always keep my finger straight when I draw from a Serpa" well... his finger curls into the trigger guard and touches what? Oh... THE TRIGGER.

The second video is even slower motion, destroying any doubt that, even for "highly trained super-professionals", that the Serpa is flawed in its design of unlocking the pistol using the index finger. End of story, no possible dissent can be seriously considered.

Link to ARFCOM thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/19812 ... mself.html

AJSully421 wrote:We have been having a similar conversation on AR15.com.

You "Serpa Supporters" have to watch these two videos. The video is with Patrick Sweeney, and for two whole minutes, he declares that anyone who doesn't like the Serpa holster is either uninformed or misinformed, that they are total amateurs who are not smart enough to know the 4 rules, or who are just plain too stupid to keep their finger off of the trigger.

At the 2:28 mark, Mr "well trained Serpa Supporter" then draws his PPQ from his Serpa, in slow motion no less, and Mr "I always keep my finger straight when I draw from a Serpa" well... his finger curls into the trigger guard and touches what? Oh... THE TRIGGER.

The second video is even slower motion, destroying any doubt that, even for "highly trained super-professionals", that the Serpa is flawed in its design of unlocking the pistol using the index finger. End of story, no possible dissent can be seriously considered.

Link to ARFCOM thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/19812 ... mself.html

I've seen this video before, but since it was essentially a pair of industry insiders giving a sales pitch I chalked it up to "just another self proffessed expert" who talks better than he can perform.

Since you posted it here, I actually Googled to see who the heck Patrick Sweeney is.... A retired gunsmith & gun editor. I'd suggest he's perhaps not so well trained, similar to the other internet guy that shot himself in the leg cited earlier (who also snapped the trigger on the draw).

It's been danced around, but I have not seen it mentioned directly in this thread - involuntary hand clenches. I know Excalibur and others have posted about involuntary and symmetrical clenching before, but I think it would be good idea of many of our users to review their trigger finger index position honestly and see if they should adjust.

From the article, the 3 most commonly identified causes :

1) Postural Imbalance. When the shooter loses balance or trips, his hands will clench.
2) Startle Effect. When the shooter is under stress and surprised, there will often be a hand clench.
3) Interlimb Interaction. Under stress, when the non gun hand closes violently, the gun hand will clench, spontaneously duplicating the actions of the non-gun hand.

While we all know that that finger needs to be out of the trigger guard, even a finger indexed low on the frame but out of the trigger guard is susceptible to finding the trigger on an involuntary hand clench.

Personally, I recently have switched to the alternate bent finger position that Massad has advocated.

All the chatter about negligent discharges attributed to the Serpa holster is exactly the reason I won't own....a Glock.

I was a big Serpa holster believer for a long time, kinda scoffed at the idea that the product was unsafe, believing the ND issues were improper use/training.

What changed my mind was a well thought out video on Youtube by one of the channels I watch (wish I could find it or remember who did it), did a demonstration where they showed how even with good finger discipline how easy it was to find your finger on the trigger. Their original supposition was that it depended more on make/model and hand size and the angle of the draw. They believed going into it, for users with smaller hands, it would cause you to reach with your index finger in an upwards/outstretched motion to depress the release. For those users/setups you would be ok because the finger comes to rest more on the slide, less on the trigger/trigger guard.

However they ultimately came to the conclusion that wasn't how most users drew their gun because of the nature/mechanics of how we draw/shoot. The natural tendency is to keep your finger straight, not outstretched in the upward fashion, and would leave your finger over the trigger. Being that the release required you to press down and pull out, the faster you did that the more likely you were to have your finger curl or slip onto the trigger. They demo'ed this with safely cleared weapons. They started out drawing slowly and properly, but showed as they drew more quickly and instinctively they either had their fingers over or on the trigger. They never accidentally curled their finger around the trigger, but showed how easy that would be to do, and if you consider a high stress/adrenaline moment, where you have less dexterity and control - you have an accident waiting to happen.

I previously mentioned that I didn't have a SERPA holster, Turns out that I was wrong. I do have one for my P92FS Beretta. I haven't used it much though. I don't carry the Beretta much, and I mostly use what someone else referred to as a nylon taco, an Uncle Mike's when I pack the P92.

What I noticed though is that the Beretta has a pretty wide "landing strip" for the trigger finger. Drawing the Beretta from the SERPA tends to guide one's finger to this landing zone ones finger above the trigger area. Right onto the disassembly button. The Beretta is a DA/SA with a manual safety and requires a long hard pull for the first shot.

I think the safety concerns of the SERPA will vary a lot depending on the particular gun being used. A 1911 with its SA trigger seems and grip seem to more naturally guide a shooters trigger finger to the trigger area. The wrist stop area tends to be lower in relation to the trigger area. Also the lack of a manual safety and the relatively short trigger pull of the Glock tend to leave a smaller margin of safety.

Folks here describe a "jam" situation with the SERPA. I haven't seen this and don't understand the conditions where this can happen.

Maybe, I'll give it to someone I don't like. Maybe that's how I ended up with it