Tap, Rack, Bang or Drop, Replace, Rack, Bang?

Gun, shooting and equipment discussions unrelated to CHL issues

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Jusme
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Re: Tap, Rack, Bang or Drop, Replace, Rack, Bang?

Postby Jusme » Sat May 13, 2017 8:13 am

OlBill wrote:
Scott B. wrote:This is a good subject. The way we teach is it is, "Tap - Rack - Assess." Why? Let's say you're in a gun fight and while clearing your hypothetical malfunction the 'bad guy' -- so overwhelmed by your guns skills -- surrenders? But you follow up with "Bang" because that's the way you always practiced it?

Something to think about. :fire

You bring up an interesting point.

I had already decided to shoot and pulled the trigger. It didn't bang and I never took my eyes off the threat while I fixed it. What am I assessing?



The assessment is for any possibility, for a change, to have occurred, while performing the tap, rack, maneuver. While at a range, in a controlled, environment, change will be non-existent. In real world situations, a myriad, of things can change, even if focused on the threat. Tunnel vision, is a real issue, and under stress, there are a lot of things that you won't see. I don't practice malfunction drills, while standing still, because I don't want to revert to my training, and be standing like a statue, if it happens in real life. Moving even slightly, will help open up your field of vision, and there may be something you see, which will change the decision to immediately fire. Like I said, an innocent person, may have entered the target area, a second, more immediate threat, may be presented to you, etc.. all of these things are a possibility, and while it is impossible to completely prepare foe every scenario, just practicing one way of doing things, may cause more problems in a real life situation. JMHO
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


OlBill
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Re: Tap, Rack, Bang or Drop, Replace, Rack, Bang?

Postby OlBill » Sat May 13, 2017 8:15 am

twomillenium wrote:
Scott B. wrote:This is a good subject. The way we teach is it is, "Tap - Rack - Assess." Why? Let's say you're in a gun fight and while clearing your hypothetical malfunction the 'bad guy' -- so overwhelmed by your guns skills -- surrenders? But you follow up with "Bang" because that's the way you always practiced it?

Something to think about. :fire

The "bad guy" should have surrendered sooner. :tiphat:

:lol:

I like it.


OlBill
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Re: Tap, Rack, Bang or Drop, Replace, Rack, Bang?

Postby OlBill » Sat May 13, 2017 8:17 am

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Jusme wrote: Most ranges, where you are shooting at static targets standing in one place, will not allow for these drills. I am fortunate in that I have some private property on which to practice. There are some ranges that allow for these type of drills, but most are not close to me.


This varies greatly. I have heard of some ranges where they ask you to get a RO to clear any issues, but the indoor ranges I go to in Houston (Boyert and Memorial Shooting Center) allow you to clear your own issues. And I have been unfortunate enough to have a number of issues with the relatively few problem guns I have owned, so I naturally get some practice. If you wanted to force the practice, you could have someone else load your mags and put a few snap caps in among the good rounds. Sure you might lose some of them if they happen to end up down range, but it's not like they cost a ton of money.

Now if you are talking about the alternative approach of dropping a mag on the ground, then yes, I agree that most indoor ranges are going to have a problem with that.

I realize we are limited in time and resources and any shooting done properly is good shooting. But I won't go where I have to ask for help to fix my gun.

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Jusme
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Re: Tap, Rack, Bang or Drop, Replace, Rack, Bang?

Postby Jusme » Sat May 13, 2017 8:20 am

OlBill wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Jusme wrote: Most ranges, where you are shooting at static targets standing in one place, will not allow for these drills. I am fortunate in that I have some private property on which to practice. There are some ranges that allow for these type of drills, but most are not close to me.


This varies greatly. I have heard of some ranges where they ask you to get a RO to clear any issues, but the indoor ranges I go to in Houston (Boyert and Memorial Shooting Center) allow you to clear your own issues. And I have been unfortunate enough to have a number of issues with the relatively few problem guns I have owned, so I naturally get some practice. If you wanted to force the practice, you could have someone else load your mags and put a few snap caps in among the good rounds. Sure you might lose some of them if they happen to end up down range, but it's not like they cost a ton of money.

Now if you are talking about the alternative approach of dropping a mag on the ground, then yes, I agree that most indoor ranges are going to have a problem with that.

I realize we are limited in time and resources and any shooting done properly is good shooting. But I won't go where I have to ask for help to fix my gun.



I have never been to a range where clearing a malfunction was dependent upon the RO. My reference was to shooting while moving, etc.
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


OlBill
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Re: Tap, Rack, Bang or Drop, Replace, Rack, Bang?

Postby OlBill » Sat May 13, 2017 8:23 am

Jusme wrote:
OlBill wrote:
Scott B. wrote:This is a good subject. The way we teach is it is, "Tap - Rack - Assess." Why? Let's say you're in a gun fight and while clearing your hypothetical malfunction the 'bad guy' -- so overwhelmed by your guns skills -- surrenders? But you follow up with "Bang" because that's the way you always practiced it?

Something to think about. :fire

You bring up an interesting point.

I had already decided to shoot and pulled the trigger. It didn't bang and I never took my eyes off the threat while I fixed it. What am I assessing?



The assessment is for any possibility, for a change, to have occurred, while performing the tap, rack, maneuver. While at a range, in a controlled, environment, change will be non-existent. In real world situations, a myriad, of things can change, even if focused on the threat. Tunnel vision, is a real issue, and under stress, there are a lot of things that you won't see. I don't practice malfunction drills, while standing still, because I don't want to revert to my training, and be standing like a statue, if it happens in real life. Moving even slightly, will help open up your field of vision, and there may be something you see, which will change the decision to immediately fire. Like I said, an innocent person, may have entered the target area, a second, more immediate threat, may be presented to you, etc.. all of these things are a possibility, and while it is impossible to completely prepare foe every scenario, just practicing one way of doing things, may cause more problems in a real life situation. JMHO


I agree moving is good, but you've got a lot going on there in the span of less than two seconds (in one cases less than 1, but I'm getting older ;-) )

I never took my eyes off the threat, the immediate action breaks my tunnel vision, and people wandering?

I'm not saying you're wrong or trying to convince you, just not my way.

I already made the decision to shoot. Not much is going to change that.


OlBill
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Re: Tap, Rack, Bang or Drop, Replace, Rack, Bang?

Postby OlBill » Sat May 13, 2017 8:24 am

Jusme wrote:
OlBill wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Jusme wrote: Most ranges, where you are shooting at static targets standing in one place, will not allow for these drills. I am fortunate in that I have some private property on which to practice. There are some ranges that allow for these type of drills, but most are not close to me.


This varies greatly. I have heard of some ranges where they ask you to get a RO to clear any issues, but the indoor ranges I go to in Houston (Boyert and Memorial Shooting Center) allow you to clear your own issues. And I have been unfortunate enough to have a number of issues with the relatively few problem guns I have owned, so I naturally get some practice. If you wanted to force the practice, you could have someone else load your mags and put a few snap caps in among the good rounds. Sure you might lose some of them if they happen to end up down range, but it's not like they cost a ton of money.

Now if you are talking about the alternative approach of dropping a mag on the ground, then yes, I agree that most indoor ranges are going to have a problem with that.

I realize we are limited in time and resources and any shooting done properly is good shooting. But I won't go where I have to ask for help to fix my gun.



I have never been to a range where clearing a malfunction was dependent upon the RO. My reference was to shooting while moving, etc.

Oh, ok.

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Bitter Clinger
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Re: Tap, Rack, Bang or Drop, Replace, Rack, Bang?

Postby Bitter Clinger » Sat May 13, 2017 10:32 am

Tap, Roll, Rack, Ready.
"You may all go to Chicago, and I will go to Texas." - Davy Crockett
"Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." - Wyatt Earp
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