NRA Doesn't Allow 1911's at New Classes

[parabelum]

You can use your 1911's as a backup...sentimental purposes and such....

"*NOTE: NRA Carry Guard Level One is designed for training with a semi-automatic handgun (Glock 19/17, Sig P226/P228 or equivalent). We will not allow revolvers or 1911s as your primary firearm in this class.

You should bring a secondary firearm that you carry concealed, as well as a holster for such. We will run the course with a primary carry weapon and then run a course of fire with a secondary or back-up gun to evaluate the differences. Please bring at least 40 rounds of ammo appropriate for your carry firearm for this portion of the class. Revolvers, 1911s and/or subcompacts can be used for this portion of the class."

https://www.nracarryguard.com/training/ ... sID=442437

[jb2012]

It drives me crazy that people will compare a "1911" to a (insert your favorite sidearm here). One 1911 is in no way equivalent to another 1911. There are hundreds if not thousands of manufacturers that make 1911's, each with their own tolerances and quality control. To compare a Philippine made 1911 with a night hawk, or to use that Philippine made to compare against (insert your favorite sidearm) is bogus. There are PLENTY of 1911's made by reputable brands that never miss a single beat. You might as well compare an 80% glock lower, machined in the Philippines, to that Rock Island that you claim is so unreliable. It's just not the same to clump all 1911's together as unreliable. There are MANY MANY veterans who used the platform for years and years defending our country without issue. Not to mention MARSOC still uses them! When put together correctly, these are some of the safest, most accurate, and balanced firearms ever to be designed. Being that they are tight fitting and accurate, they must be taken care of. At these tolerances dust/dirt/debris can eventually build up enough to cause problems. That said there is definitely an extra degree of care that must be taken with a 1911. Does that make them less reliable? Absolutely not. I love how no one gripes about the MP5 and it's 500 rd required maintenance, but will gripe about a Philippine made, off spec, hunk of steel trash not feed a steel cased surplus round after 3,000 rounds no cleaning.

end rant.

disclaimer: I have no problem with rock island/armscor/citadel just using as an example of a Philippine made 1911.

[parabelum]

All kidding aside, the only thing that slightly confuses me (which is pretty easy to do these days), is if they charge $850/student for a class that's supposed to increase your proficiency with your primary carry gun, then why not allow 1911's, revolvers, Glock 26/27/33/43/42...subcompacts etc.?

Aren't those silly things what the majority actually conceal carry?

And how realistic is it for an average Joe to have a 1911 or anything other then a knife as a backup? Most I know barely carry one spare magazine...

Anywho, I don't really care about this as $850 is way out of my price range, and I carry those ugly Glocks and compact Sig's ...

[The Annoyed Man]

So....maybe because of the hand injury, he is unable to demonstrate for students the proper disengagement of the thumb safety on a 1911 when drawing from the holster?

Or maybe they just wanted handguns that would not be jamming / failing to feed all the time?

I saw this proposed class described somewhere as a "Level 1" class - which I took to mean "entry-level". The 1911 platform is not a beginner's gun. I love them and own two of them, but they are a gunfighter's gun, not a beginner's gun. Maybe that is the reason?

I would argue that semi autos with no manual safety aren't beginner guns either.

I note that XD/XDM/XDS pistols are not barred from the class, which all have external safeties. Neither for that matter are hammer-fired guns which can be carried de-cocked, like CZs, Sigs, USPs, etc., that have a decocker/thumb safety. Apparently, only the 1911 is barred, which HAS to be carried cocked and locked to be ready to fire.

I never said they were unsafe. I like mine just fine. But whenever I teach a basic pistol class I will always put a 1911 last as the student moves up the caliber continuum, because the manual of arms is more complicated for a beginning shooter, than the manual of arms for my Glock, M&P, and XD-derivative pistols.

I think part of the problem here is that die-hard 1911 fans (I come pretty close to that description myself) seem to think that their (experienced) choice to carry a 1911 is somehow invalidated by an instructor who tells beginner students to learn how to shoot safely first with a pistol that has a simpler manual of arms. Well, your choice isn't invalidated, anymore than someone's choice to daily-drive an XK-E V12 Jaguar would be invalidated by some driving instructor's recommendation to a first time driver to bring a Honda Civic with an automatic transmission to their entry level driving class.

Meanwhile, in the real world, lots of people who drive Honda Civics look upon XK-E V12 drivers with a touch of envy and daydream about what track days must be like, but remind themselves that they are glad they chose the Civic to make the daily commute through stop and go traffic. One is less boring than the other, but it also requires a higher degree of pistoleros skills. The other is more boring, but it is the "Honda Civic" of the gun world.

In any case, in no way is anyone's choice to carry a 1911 either being invalidated or disrespected, just because an NRA instructor decided not to allow 1911s in a entry level class.

Just my opinion. YMMV.

[RossA]

I wonder what would happen if I showed up at one of their classes with an old school Hi Power?
"It's too much like a 1911!"

[The Annoyed Man]

I wonder what would happen if I showed up at one of their classes with an old school Hi Power?
"It's too much like a 1911!"

You know.......I thought of that when I wrote my above post. He'd probably tell you it's OK because it is "only" a 9mm, and not the mighty .45.

[bblhd672]

Anywho, I don't really care about this as $850 is way out of my price range.

I can take 5 days of classes for $850 from the instructors I've been using.

[Bitter Clinger]

They will likely also outlaw appendix carry and striker fired pistols very soon as well:
http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/193576/ ... ince-2010/

[Jusme]

I have no dog in the hunt, because I'm not going to pay that much for three days. Not to mention the cost of hotels, meals etc., but, in my humble opinion, training should be inclusive of whatever the student plans to carry. Limiting a person's choice, would prevent those who may need the training the most. I could teach someone to safely and effectively shoot, if they only wanted to carry a derringer. Would it be my first choice? No. To me it seems elitist, to tell people, that they can only learn to shoot, within a limited type of firearm.
I am not a certified instructor, so my opinion is just that. And worth every penny it cost to read it.

[Charles L. Cotton]

The NRA has reversed its decision regarding 1911's and revolvers. Below is a copy of the official position on Carry Guard classes.

Chas.

In response to clear feedback surrounding the NRA Carry Guard Level I course announcement, we have modified the required firearm platforms as well as our site language to clearly articulate how firearms will be used in the class.

Bottom line: our decision to not include 1911s and revolvers as primary firearms in our initial Level I course was a mistake, and we appreciate the feedback we have received from the firearms community.

In response to the clear and overwhelming demand for these firearms to be used throughout the entire course, our instructors have decided to accommodate all safe, reliable handguns with a capacity of 6 rounds or more. Firearms with less than 6 rounds of capacity will still be allowed as secondary platforms.

We welcome anyone serious about building the skills necessary to defend themselves and their families to attend our NRA Carry Guard Level I course, beginning in July.

[parabelum]

Wow.

Got to give credit where credit is due, NRA clearly listened to the voice of customer and have modified the pistol requirements to reflect that.

Still out of my price range, but I got to give them big thumbs up for actually listening and acting fast!

[4copas]

Thanks for the update Charles.

[1911 10MM]

The NRA has reversed its decision regarding 1911's and revolvers. Below is a copy of the official position on Carry Guard classes.

Chas.

In response to clear feedback surrounding the NRA Carry Guard Level I course announcement, we have modified the required firearm platforms as well as our site language to clearly articulate how firearms will be used in the class.

Bottom line: our decision to not include 1911s and revolvers as primary firearms in our initial Level I course was a mistake, and we appreciate the feedback we have received from the firearms community.

In response to the clear and overwhelming demand for these firearms to be used throughout the entire course, our instructors have decided to accommodate all safe, reliable handguns with a capacity of 6 rounds or more. Firearms with less than 6 rounds of capacity will still be allowed as secondary platforms.

We welcome anyone serious about building the skills necessary to defend themselves and their families to attend our NRA Carry Guard Level I course, beginning in July.

Thank you for the update as this is the way it should be. Great news indeed!

[1911 10MM]

So....maybe because of the hand injury, he is unable to demonstrate for students the proper disengagement of the thumb safety on a 1911 when drawing from the holster?

Or maybe they just wanted handguns that would not be jamming / failing to feed all the time?

I saw this proposed class described somewhere as a "Level 1" class - which I took to mean "entry-level". The 1911 platform is not a beginner's gun. I love them and own two of them, but they are a gunfighter's gun, not a beginner's gun. Maybe that is the reason?

I would argue that semi autos with no manual safety aren't beginner guns either.

So, argue.

Thought I already did. I guess I could post videos of all the professionals with Glock Leg or Glock hand. Since the NRA has reversed their decision I will just leave it at that.