Sub-2000, 9mm, Gen 2, Glock, on Grabagun, $399

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NotRPB
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Re: Sub-2000, 9mm, Gen 2, Glock, on Grabagun, $399

Postby NotRPB » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:00 am

apostate wrote:
carlson1 wrote:I like the ideal of having it folded in a back pack where there are only 30.06/.07 signs. I have seen some “no firearms” signs, but not along with the 30.06/.07 signs. So is it fair to “assume” then the long gun concealed would be legal where there are NO generic firearm signs?

Unless it's a location prohibited by TPC 46.03 or by Federal law, I don't know how it would be illegal.

:iagree:
I've seen sign at several hospitals "This is a tobacco free campus" yet I see snuff can rings on some guys' pants pockets ... and cigarette packs in peoples' shirt pockets ..It certainly wasn't a true statement I'm not positive that is a valid 30.05 sign... kinda like "GunFreeZone" signs where mass shootings occurred, wasn't a true statement & not positive that is a valid Texas 30.05 sign either.


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Re: Sub-2000, 9mm, Gen 2, Glock, on Grabagun, $399

Postby mot7981 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:48 am

by bblhd672 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:15 pm

mot7981 wrote:
I had a Gen 1 model that ran S&W mags that I picked up used. It was fun but not very reliable. I sold that and picked up a new Gen 2 model at a great price. I think part of the reason it was cheaper was because it used Beretta 92 mags. I have a 92 so that’s no problem. So far it’s been perfect with Freedom brass reloads (I’ve not tried any aluminum yet). I also like all the improvements to the Gen 2 version. For what it’s worth, I’ve used several mags including a 30 round extended one with no problem. I also highly recommend the Tacticool bolt tube cover.


Do you attribute the "not very reliable" to the S&W mags or that it was a Gen1? My S2K is the only weapon I have that uses Glock mags, so I've thought about getting one that takes the S&W mags since my full size 9mm pistol is a S&W M&P. However, I like the fact that the Glock mags come in a 30 round version and S&W does not (S&W manufactured, I try to stay away from pistol mags not made by the pistol manufacturer).



I think it was a little of both. The Gen 1 looked well used when I got it. It used S&W 59 mags and since I got it used I'm not sure if any of them were actually S&W mags. The main problem was failure to go into battery. I think there is a Gen 2 model now takes M&P mags so that may be an improvement. Plus, I just like the Gen 2 better. These things have been really hard to find on & off. I paid a little more for the used Gen 1 model than I paid for the new Gen 2 model later. It's all timing I guess. I think they're a unique and fun gun to have.

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Re: Sub-2000, 9mm, Gen 2, Glock, on Grabagun, $399

Postby bblhd672 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:38 pm

mot7981 wrote:I think they're a unique and fun gun to have.


Me too. Recently was shooting it at a range and the man and his wife in next lane had one too. They both said how much they like shooting theirs.
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Re: Sub-2000, 9mm, Gen 2, Glock, on Grabagun, $399

Postby stroo » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:38 pm

I have seen a "No Weapons" sign along with 30.6/30.07 signs.


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Re: Sub-2000, 9mm, Gen 2, Glock, on Grabagun, $399

Postby NotRPB » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:58 am

stroo wrote:I have seen a "No Weapons" sign along with 30.6/30.07 signs.

But was it a valid 30.05 sign? Again, I'm not a lawyer ... but In my layman's opinion "No (people of a certain race/age/gender)" or "No Ice cream" "No tobacco products" (prohibiting a CONCEALED snuff can in a pocket) may not be valid 30.05 signs

Signs below are posted as examples without comment on their validity
Image
Image
This topic was discussed previously, I like how Scott put it http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=84069&start=75#p1078739

ScottDLS wrote:
thetexan wrote:I'm sorry I made an edit which makes my post not what you said.

"In fact I maintain that once notification was given in the form of that sign you violated 30.05a1 in that you had notice that the entry was forbidden and that walking through the door consumated the trespass in which case he did not even need to tell you again."


This is not the way 30.05 has been interpreted to date as far as I am able to tell. As an owner who opens his business to the public, you do not automatically gain the criminal power of the state to exclude people based on arbitrary criteria. The SIGN requirements in 30.05 are designed to exclude people from entering the property at all in the case of private property (NO TRESPASS, purple paint, fence, etc.). Enforcing the "rules" that you specify can be initiated by oral notice to the person that is violating them, or by written notice that the individual is NO LONGER allowed on the property for whatever reason (usually in presence of a peace officer).

Violating the NO WEAPONS, NO HATS, NO BRIEFS (only boxers), NO COPS, or NO Republicans signs isn't an automatic Class B or A...or hasn't ever been held to be as far as I know.

In fact, that's one of the reasons for the 30.06/7 sign requirements being so specific about what constitutes notice that a "behavior" is prohibited.


Finally: http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=84069&start=90#p1079799

LucasMcCain wrote:I got an answer back from my lawyer. I will post it here in its entirety. It's not quite as cut and dried as I would like, but I think it's about as detailed as we are likely to get. Hope this helps.


There is not a special criminal trespass sign for the carrying of a long gun, as there is for the carrying of a handgun by a license holder under TPC 30.06 and 30.07. For that reason, someone who trespasses with a long gun would likely be charged for trespass under TPC 30.05.

For property that is not open to the public, if you enter or remain on the property of another without effective consent, then any notice that entry is forbidden provided for under 30.05(b)(2) would be sufficient.
TPC 30.05(b)(2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;
(D) the placement of identifying purple paint marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks are:
(i) vertical lines of not less than eight inches in length and not less than one inch in width;
(ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet from the ground; and
(iii) placed at locations that are readily visible to any person approaching the property and no more than:
(a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or
(b) 1,000 feet apart on land other than forest land; or
(E) the visible presence on the property of a crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time of entry.
Given that the trespasser in your scenario is carrying a long gun, an offense under this section would be a Class A misdemeanor under TPC 30.05(d)(3)(B).

For property that is open to the public, “notice” would likely require:
TPC 30.05(b)(2)(A) – oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner (that entry on to the property with a firearm or long gun is prohibited); or
30.05(b)(2)(C) – a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden (with a firearm or long gun).
As to the specific language necessary to communicate that entry is forbidden if someone is carrying a long gun (“no guns,” “no firearms,” “gun buster,” etc.), a jury would ultimately decide if the language used gave the defendant sufficient notice.
On offense under this section would be a Class A misdemeanor under TPC 30.05(d)(3)(B).


" a jury would ultimately decide "
That means, unless it states 30.05 and is a valid 30.05 sign where they intend 30.05 to apply and it states 30.05 applies (and there is no exemption nor exception such as exists for those licensed to carry handguns) THEN I'd need to ask the jury in order to make an informed decision whether to obey or disregard a sign prior to entering.

So, to me if language which is "Vague Ambiguous and overly broad" such that I cannot tell if 30.05 applies or not..it is probably merely a wish that I don't spit tobacco juice in their potted plant does not indicate whether I must return to my car and remove my snuff can from my pocket or if I'm ok as long ad it's concealed and I don't brandish the can or fire off any spits into the plants... If I don't know what the sign means, whether it's a wish like a ghostbuster sign or if 30.05 was intended to apply, I cannot make a decision to comply or not .. kind of like a sign on private property that we must all drive on the left side of the parking lot aisles, Police won't write a citation, the sign has no force of law for that, it may be a rule or a wish they concocted. Again IANAL

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Re: Sub-2000, 9mm, Gen 2, Glock, on Grabagun, $399

Postby ScottDLS » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:23 am

:iagree: x 100!!
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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