How Effective are Target Wadcutters as a Self-Defense Load?

Gun, shooting and equipment discussions unrelated to CHL issues

Moderator: carlson1

Post Reply

Topic author
Crash
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 494
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:13 pm

How Effective are Target Wadcutters as a Self-Defense Load?

#1

Post by Crash »

I've read in a couple of different places that target wadcutters can be an effective self-defense load even though the velocity is pretty low. It is claimed that they penetrate well and don't recoil much, thus allowing quicker, better-aimed follow-up shots. Anybody know of any self-defense shootings using target wadcutters? If there is enough verifiable evidence that they are effective, I may start using them in my .38 Special Ruger LCR.

Crash

WTR
Banned
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1931
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: How Effective are Target Wadcutters as a Self-Defense Load?

#2

Post by WTR »

I have no personal practical evidence of this. The man who instructed me in revolver shooting was the Range Officer at are local PD. He would load wad cutters backwards ( he called dum dum rounds) and said they made good SD rounds.
User avatar

puma guy
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 7609
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:23 pm
Location: Near San Jacinto

Re: How Effective are Target Wadcutters as a Self-Defense Load?

#3

Post by puma guy »

WTR wrote:I have no personal practical evidence of this. The man who instructed me in revolver shooting was the Range Officer at are local PD. He would load wad cutters backwards ( he called dum dum rounds) and said they made good SD rounds.
He probably loaded hollow based was cutters. I used to do that when I re-loaded. They were pretty effective.
KAHR PM40/Hoffner IWB and S&W Mod 60/ Galco IWB
NRA Endowment Member, TSRA Life Member,100 Club Life Member,TFC Member
My Faith, My Gun and My Constitution: I cling to all three!
User avatar

Middle Age Russ
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1402
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am
Location: Spring-Woodlands

Re: How Effective are Target Wadcutters as a Self-Defense Load?

#4

Post by Middle Age Russ »

Wad-cutters are almost always made of very soft lead and have a hollow base. Being very soft lead, velocities and energy of wad-cutter loads must be modest to prevent severe lead fouling. The deform but don't really expand and penetrate reasonably well.

Before the advent of jacketed hollow point pistol bullets, people used dum-dum rounds (a hollow-base wad-cutter bullet loaded backward) to help produce a bit of expansion from low velocity cartridges. The typical soft lead round-nose loads were somewhat better penetrators than wad-cutters due to the nose design, and would deform a bit but seldom expand at all. Dum-dum rounds offered modest expansion at best and were simply a small step up the performance ladder from the lead round nose loads.

Over the last 30-40 years, a great deal has been learned about producing projectiles that expand to limit penetration. Modern loads with controlled-expansion bonded, jacketed hollow points offer far superior and predictable performance -- expanding quite consistently to enlarge frontal area and limit penetration. There are several reduced recoil loads being produced with such modern projectiles if the reduced recoil is desired.
Russ
Stay aware and engaged. Awareness buys time; time buys options. Survival may require moving quickly past the Observe, Orient and Decide steps to ACT.
NRA Life Member, CRSO, Basic Pistol, PPITH & PPOTH Instructor, Texas 4-H Certified Pistol & Rifle Coach, Texas LTC Instructor
User avatar

ELB
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 8128
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 9:34 pm
Location: Seguin

Re: How Effective are Target Wadcutters as a Self-Defense Load?

#5

Post by ELB »

In a handgun bullet I would worry more about achieving sufficient penetration, especially with smaller calibers and/or reduced velocities. Expansion is nice when you get it, but the bullet has to get somewhere "good" first. Back when there were not a lot of choices in ammo, you made do with what you had, but now we have Gold Dots and similar high quality rounds with lots of street use.

Couple articles along this line.

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/s ... enetration

http://tacticalanatomy.com/blog/106-wou ... ssues.html
USAF 1982-2005
____________

Topic author
Crash
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 494
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:13 pm

Re: How Effective are Target Wadcutters as a Self-Defense Load?

#6

Post by Crash »

Middle Age Russ wrote:Wad-cutters are almost always made of very soft lead and have a hollow base. Being very soft lead, velocities and energy of wad-cutter loads must be modest to prevent severe lead fouling. The deform but don't really expand and penetrate reasonably well.

Before the advent of jacketed hollow point pistol bullets, people used dum-dum rounds (a hollow-base wad-cutter bullet loaded backward) to help produce a bit of expansion from low velocity cartridges. The typical soft lead round-nose loads were somewhat better penetrators than wad-cutters due to the nose design, and would deform a bit but seldom expand at all. Dum-dum rounds offered modest expansion at best and were simply a small step up the performance ladder from the lead round nose loads.

Over the last 30-40 years, a great deal has been learned about producing projectiles that expand to limit penetration. Modern loads with controlled-expansion bonded, jacketed hollow points offer far superior and predictable performance -- expanding quite consistently to enlarge frontal area and limit penetration. There are several reduced recoil loads being produced with such modern projectiles if the reduced recoil is desired.
Middle Age Russ,

I agree that there have been substantial changes made in bullet design and manufacture during the last few years. However, I've checked every ballistic gelatin test and Clear Gel test I can find on the internet and quite a few of those fairly new designs sometimes over or underpenetrate and many times they don't expand. Actually, expansion is not one of the criteria I place too much importance on: I believe that practical accuracy (which depends more on me) and sufficient penetration are the most important factors in a self-defense situation.

Thanks for your help,

Crash
User avatar

Middle Age Russ
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1402
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:44 am
Location: Spring-Woodlands

Re: How Effective are Target Wadcutters as a Self-Defense Load?

#7

Post by Middle Age Russ »

I believe that practical accuracy (which depends more on me) and sufficient penetration are the most important factors in a self-defense situation.
:iagree:

With handgun rounds, I'll happily take expansion if it occurs so long as said expansion doesn't inhibit penetration too much. At the end of the day with rounds of relatively low energy it is shot placement that trumps everything else.

Your question mentioned the claim that dum-dum rounds penetrate well with low recoil impulse. The low recoil impulse is simply due to them having to be light, low velocity loads due to the soft lead alloy -- to prevent them from unduly fouling the gun's barrel. If light-recoiling penetration is your goal, I would think any soft-lead load would work, whether it be round nose, wad-cutter (inverted or not) or some other profile since all of them have to be loaded light.

As for penetrating well, I am sure they can, but their performance will be more erratic than modern bonded jacketed hollow points particularly if they strike. bone. The soft lead tends to deform readily, sometimes fragmenting a bit and shedding weight. Playing devils advocate, if you want extreme penetration for a given cartridge, a hard-cast lead projectile with a large flat frontal area is probably the way to go since they don't deform easily at all.

Ammunition and firearms themselves are not so different in that we choose each of them to fill a certain role and we often look for the best combination of features / performance to do the job we have in mind.
Russ
Stay aware and engaged. Awareness buys time; time buys options. Survival may require moving quickly past the Observe, Orient and Decide steps to ACT.
NRA Life Member, CRSO, Basic Pistol, PPITH & PPOTH Instructor, Texas 4-H Certified Pistol & Rifle Coach, Texas LTC Instructor
User avatar

SQLGeek
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 3269
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:48 am
Location: Richmond, TX

Re: How Effective are Target Wadcutters as a Self-Defense Load?

#8

Post by SQLGeek »

A cop acquaintance of mine worked a case years back where somebody got shot from a shortish distance by a wadcutter. Said the bullet entered just under the guys nipple and prooceeded to travel across his chest and barely penetrated the pectoral muscle. The guy was upright and talking when he arrived and had no serious injuries.

Now bullets are known to do weird things but it makes me think there are better rounds available, especially these days.
Psalm 91:2
User avatar

Liberty
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 6343
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Galveston
Contact:

Re: How Effective are Target Wadcutters as a Self-Defense Load?

#9

Post by Liberty »

All I know is that a lot of cops for a lot of years were using .38 special wadcutters. They were a pretty popular round back then. I don't know why they weren't using hollow points back then. I was using hollowpoint .22s as a kid back in the 60s.
Liberty''s Blog
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." John F. Kennedy
User avatar

Pawpaw
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 6745
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:16 am
Location: Hunt County

Re: How Effective are Target Wadcutters as a Self-Defense Load?

#10

Post by Pawpaw »

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams
Post Reply

Return to “General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion”