Remington faces default

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parabelum
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Remington faces default

Postby parabelum » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:15 am

Progs are definitely better for gun business...

“Remington Outdoor, the second-largest U.S. gunmaker has suffered a “rapid” and “sharp” deterioration in sales and a similar drop in profits since January, and faces “continued softness in consumer demand for firearms,” credit analysts at Standard & Poor’s Global Ratings said in a report Friday.

S&P as a result has cut the company’s corporate credit rating — already at a junk-bond-level CCC+ — two full notches, to CCC-, a move likely to make the company’s high-yield debt less attractive to investors and lenders, and force Remington to pay more in interest. The company could face a change in control, bankruptcy, or default on its debt by next year.”


http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq- ... ?mobi=true
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Re: Remington faces default

Postby bblhd672 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:23 am

I've read a lot of posts and comments across the interwebs the last few days about Remington's claim of softened market for firearms. The general consensus seems to be if you make quality firearms and refuse to skimp on quality, your customers will continue to buy. Remington's failure to maintain quality control and customer service is being blamed by many for the company's problems.
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Re: Remington faces default

Postby OlBill » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:48 am

bblhd672 wrote:I've read a lot of posts and comments across the interwebs the last few days about Remington's claim of softened market for firearms. The general consensus seems to be if you make quality firearms and refuse to skimp on quality, your customers will continue to buy. Remington's failure to maintain quality control and customer service is being blamed by many for the company's problems.

That's my thinking as well.


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Re: Remington faces default

Postby strogg » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:52 am

The lackluster 700 series, the declining quality of the 870, their lack of any decent semiauto shotguns... yeah, I'm not surprised either. In many markets, bottom line is typically key, but not in the firearms market. Quality and reliability is key.


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Re: Remington faces default

Postby mr surveyor » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:09 am

and then there is their fiasco with taking Marlin down ....


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Re: Remington faces default

Postby Nuts » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:14 am

...And don’t forget the R51 fiasco.


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Re: Remington faces default

Postby OlBill » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:17 am

mr surveyor wrote:and then there is their fiasco with taking Marlin down ....


jd

Horrible what they did there.

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Re: Remington faces default

Postby Bitter Clinger » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:34 am

strogg wrote:The lackluster 700 series, the declining quality of the 870, their lack of any decent semiauto shotguns... yeah, I'm not surprised either. In many markets, bottom line is typically key, but not in the firearms market. Quality and reliability is key.


I have a Remington 11-87, 2-1100's and a couple of Versamax semiautos. All have seen many cases of bird, buck and slug, without a single FTF. Often times it seems to me it is the Benellis that are far more finicky, not to mention pricey. I also had a 700 that was a great shooter, but I have found that I prefer gas guns. So I have not seen the quality and reliability issues you reference?
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Re: Remington faces default

Postby The Annoyed Man » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:02 pm

mr surveyor wrote:and then there is their fiasco with taking Marlin down ....


jd

Yeah, between destroying Marlin’s reputation, AAC’s reputation, the R51 debacle, and the decline in quality of the R700 line, they’ve really hosed themselves. I wonder if they were counting on a vibrant AR15 market to keep them afloat for a while. If so, the drop in prices and demand on that platform is a possible death knell.

But of all of those - what they did to Marlin is the most egregious.
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Re: Remington faces default

Postby parabelum » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:43 pm

I have Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70, stainless model. It has the Remington stamp on the barrel so I really expected it to give me trouble. So far, few years and few hundred rounds later, it seems to be pretty solid. I bought 870 last year and it too seems to work well, I’ve not noticed anything subpar on it either.

That said, there does appear to be a sizable echo chamber on the net outlining the quality drop. That’s a shame, Remington is part of America’s history, but, it seems that unless something drastically changes they are adios amigos.
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Re: Remington faces default

Postby bblhd672 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:54 pm

Perhaps Marlin will be saved by Remington having to spin the brand off to a different ownership group that will restore the quality and desirability of the brand to its former status.
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Re: Remington faces default

Postby rotor » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:07 pm

Bitter Clinger wrote:
strogg wrote:The lackluster 700 series, the declining quality of the 870, their lack of any decent semiauto shotguns... yeah, I'm not surprised either. In many markets, bottom line is typically key, but not in the firearms market. Quality and reliability is key.


I have a Remington 11-87, 2-1100's and a couple of Versamax semiautos. All have seen many cases of bird, buck and slug, without a single FTF. Often times it seems to me it is the Benellis that are far more finicky, not to mention pricey. I also had a 700 that was a great shooter, but I have found that I prefer gas guns. So I have not seen the quality and reliability issues you reference?

I have 2 VersaMax shotguns, both lost a middle bead shortly after firing, both beads were replaced by Remington and have been flawless otherwise. I think all gun manufacturers have had problems because HRC was NOT elected. I believe our political climate has slowed the panic of gun purchases.


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Re: Remington faces default

Postby strogg » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:45 pm

rotor wrote:
Bitter Clinger wrote:
strogg wrote:The lackluster 700 series, the declining quality of the 870, their lack of any decent semiauto shotguns... yeah, I'm not surprised either. In many markets, bottom line is typically key, but not in the firearms market. Quality and reliability is key.


I have a Remington 11-87, 2-1100's and a couple of Versamax semiautos. All have seen many cases of bird, buck and slug, without a single FTF. Often times it seems to me it is the Benellis that are far more finicky, not to mention pricey. I also had a 700 that was a great shooter, but I have found that I prefer gas guns. So I have not seen the quality and reliability issues you reference?

I have 2 VersaMax shotguns, both lost a middle bead shortly after firing, both beads were replaced by Remington and have been flawless otherwise. I think all gun manufacturers have had problems because HRC was NOT elected. I believe our political climate has slowed the panic of gun purchases.



I'm referencing the trigger issue that Remington's had for a while. When I first got into firearms over 12 years ago, multiple gun stores have steered me away from the Remington 700s because of the trigger reliability and workmanship that goes into the action of the rifles. I was all, "OK sure," and stayed away from them. Since then, Remington ended up settling a class action suit against them. So I guess those FFLs knew what they were talking about. One of them also didn't carry the 1100 shotguns. They said that they had such a high incidence of customer complaints about the shotgun that they decided to stop carrying those, and focus on the Mossbergs and Benellis instead. Maybe they got a bad batch? Dunno.

Also, I personally own an 870. First gun I ever bought. I should not need to hone the barrel so the spent shells don't stick, though. Apparently it's a common issue. I find it unacceptable that any sort of gunsmithing work would need to be done on a barrel to make a factory firearm work as intended.

I will say this, though. The earlier models were definitely spot on. I have an old 552 Speedmaster that is one of the most fun guns to shoot. I feel like a little kid every time I pull the trigger on that thing. Even though it's about 50 years old now, it's still a champ.

Yes, now that gun rights are supposedly safe, the revenue numbers for gun manufacturers have definitely dropped. That's definitely not helping the situation


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Re: Remington faces default

Postby Alf » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:59 pm

They were under water with a quarter billion in debt when Cerberus acquired them. Maybe they were just delaying the inevitable.


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Re: Remington faces default

Postby jason812 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:06 pm

I've never been a Remington fan but you can feel the difference in an older rifle or shotgun compared to a new one. Sadly, this problem isn't just isolated to Remington. The Winchester model 70's I have just feel so much better than what is being cranked out now. Not to mention my nephew's 1894 30-30 that my dad bought 50 years ago. You definitely don't have rifles built to that quality from a mass producer. The bluing and quality of the wood is just not the same.

I do question Savage and Springfield's entry into the AR market as I think sales will be soft for at least the next 2.5 years, maybe more. Everybody I personally know that has an AR, has more than one.


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