Hornady Critical Defense 9mm Ammo

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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: Hornady Critical Defense 9mm Ammo

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:23 pm

As troglodyte noted, LuckyGunner.com does some very good testing of self-defense loads in handguns with shorter barrels. Here is the TESTING page.

I also like the testing that Paul Harrell does on his YouTube site. I find his "meat targets" to provide very good information you cannot determine from ballistic gelatin testing. Ballistic gelatin testing is useful only to compare one round to another round. It's a consistent measuring stick, if you will, but it does not provide reliable information about how a bullet will perform in an assailant. Paul ruffles some feathers in the industry because he 1) uses a more reasonable target (meat target); and 2) because he's not a fan of "hyper ammo" (i.e. expensive) over regular ammo, except with .380ACP. His testing seems to prove him right. Here is one video on that subject.

As with others, it has been my experience that 124 gr. bullets are more accurate than 115 gr. bullets in 9mm.

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Re: Hornady Critical Defense 9mm Ammo

Postby MechAg94 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:25 pm

I love Paul Harrel's videos. They are definitely worth the time.

It was my understanding that his testing shows the "hyper" ammo was marginally better, but not by a huge amount (and I agree with that). Certainly the difference is not enough to justify the huge price difference you often see at stores. Cheaper HP ammo still performs pretty good. I think the Remington and Winchester HP ammo you normally find at Walmart is what he is using.

It also underscores keeping a 45 ACP pistol in my carry rotation instead of just 9mm.

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Re: Hornady Critical Defense 9mm Ammo

Postby troglodyte » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:40 pm

How did I ever miss Paul Harrel's videos???

Now I have an evening of entertainment. :thumbs2:

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Re: Hornady Critical Defense 9mm Ammo

Postby SQLGeek » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:21 pm

I hadn't seen them either but they are great. His meat target testing is quite interesting.
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Re: Hornady Critical Defense 9mm Ammo

Postby Tex1961 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:23 pm

MechAg94 wrote:I love Paul Harrel's videos. They are definitely worth the time .

:iagree:
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Re: Hornady Critical Defense 9mm Ammo

Postby flechero » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:17 pm

I like Paul's videos but in this case, I find it difficult to buy the ammo selection on what part of the tangerine bag he hits... he uses the mush as his justification, but his method of shooting into a bag of tangerines doesn't ensure he hits the same number based on a random loose packed bag.

His bullets on 1 could have squared 4 tangerines and made a real mess (as some did) while he could have knicked others and only squared 1 or 2... which could explain some of the results.

Had he lined up the layers of meat and fruit, at least you would have gotten an "apples to apples" comparison. :lol:


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Re: Hornady Critical Defense 9mm Ammo

Postby SigM4 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:21 pm

^^^This is one reason I like the Lucky gunner series of videos as it’s a true apples to apple comparison, realizing it’s not the most lifelike medium. Thus I’ll usually check his videos afterward to see if he has one for that particular round, but as a compasrison between rounds they’re not great as it’s impossible to setup the same shot each time with his method.
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Re: Hornady Critical Defense 9mm Ammo

Postby SQLGeek » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:38 pm

There is room for both types of tests IMO. Ballistic gellatin provides a more controlled comparison which is quite valuable. That said, the uniform medium also isn't the best replication of the human body. The meat target helps address that with the introduction of ribs, various tissue types and a soft interior replicating organs.

I think the watermelons better represent this than the bag of tangerines but I found both informative. It is but one more piece of the puzzle. Paul certainly isn't claiming his testing is definitive.

After having watched a pile of Paul's videos, I am beginning to rethink my choice of caliber. I exclusively carry a Shield stoked with 9mm 115gr SXT. Seeing the comparison to .45 ACP and .357 magnum in the meat target has given me some food for thought.

I like 9mm for the relatively inexpensive practice ammo and capacity but perhaps this needs to be revisited for my own needs.

Sorry for the threadjack. :/
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Re: Hornady Critical Defense 9mm Ammo

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:54 pm

SQLGeek wrote:There is room for both types of tests IMO. Ballistic gellatin provides a more controlled comparison which is quite valuable. That said, the uniform medium also isn't the best replication of the human body. The meat target helps address that with the introduction of ribs, various tissue types and a soft interior replicating organs.

I think the watermelons better represent this than the bag of tangerines but I found both informative. It is but one more piece of the puzzle. Paul certainly isn't claiming his testing is definitive.

After having watched a pile of Paul's videos, I am beginning to rethink my choice of caliber. I exclusively carry a Shield stoked with 9mm 115gr SXT. Seeing the comparison to .45 ACP and .357 magnum in the meat target has given me some food for thought.

I like 9mm for the relatively inexpensive practice ammo and capacity but perhaps this needs to be revisited for my own needs.

Sorry for the threadjack. :/

Paul prefers to use watermelons and uses oranges only when melons are not in season.

I agree with your caliber comments also. I took a class last Sunday taught by my recently retired SWAT buddy. He was asked about 9mm v. .45ACP, including a question whether he feels under-gunned when carrying a 9mm. Of course, the "vastly improved 9mm bullets" issue was discussed. His comment was that, with the right ammo (124 gr. Speer Gold Dot), he did not feel under-gunned at all. He also said that if he could have put a Deltapoint Pro on his CZ SP-01, he would be carrying that instead of his .45ACP. All that aside, he also noted that while 9mm bullets have improved greatly, so have .45 bullets. As I've said in other threads, he noted that, based upon HPD's experience, his experience and his debriefing other officers and surgeons, BGs go down faster with .45ACP than with 9mm. So he doesn't feel under-gunned with good ammo in a 9mm, he feels "better-gunned" with a .45ACP (230 gr. Gold Dot).

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Re: Hornady Critical Defense 9mm Ammo

Postby SQLGeek » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:21 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote: So he doesn't feel under-gunned with good ammo in a 9mm, he feels "better-gunned" with a .45ACP (230 gr. Gold Dot).

Chas.


That's a very interesting way to look at it.
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Re: Hornady Critical Defense 9mm Ammo

Postby Scott B. » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:59 pm

Most of my daily biz is with local LEOs. HPD academy students are in 9mm now, after being in .40 for a long time. The LE guns we sell are almost exclusively 9mm these days. Frankly, it's hard to get a .40 in those programs on the rare occasions when we're asked to get one. Have already started to see some marks trimming back on .40/.357 Sig/ and .45 offerings.

Don't do much ammo, but I stock Speer Gold Dot 124gr P+ for officers who ask. Agree that Federal HST 147 GR P+ is excellent too.

Lot of it, ammo choice, seems to be generational too.
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Re: Hornady Critical Defense 9mm Ammo

Postby mrvmax » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:01 pm

troglodyte wrote:Luckygunner has done some good testing. Not scientifically exhuastive but a great place to start.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm

Shootingthebull410 also did some good testing

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgNSGOEQko_M90AMdRCDMgd-w4Yozc27i

Good info, there is too much access to ballistic testing to just take the word of another person. I have been following “Shooting the Bull” for a while now but as was mentioned there are some other sources. Different ammo will have different accuracy in different guns so you need to verify in your gun.


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